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Help with Strawberry gene!

Snakehead

Bite Me! It's ok
Does anybody have any good info on the strawberry morphs? Any info would be welcomed. I did some digging and there's not much on the subject. Is the Salmon the same gene? What is the story behind the origin of the Strawberries? I know it's considered a type of hypo but I don't know too much more than that.
 
"Strawberry" Corns (and the Salmon Ghosts & Salmon Snows) originated from Jim Stelpflug of South West Wisconsion Reptiles http://swreptile.com/

I own Salmon Ghosts, Salmon snows and in the past (~2002 I believe) have bought Strawberry corns from Jim Stelpflug. Although many speculate that the Strawberry Gene IS the cause for the Pinkish/salmon color of the Salmon Ghosts/Snows, I just haven't seen the evidence yet. It SHOULD be the reason- Jim introduced the Strawberry hypos along with teh Salmon Ghosts & snows (the chances of it being two different genes id VERY slim).

KJ Lodrigue ( www.kjunsnakehaven.com ) spent a few years working with a group of Strawberry Corns/morphs that belonged to a close friend of ours (don't know if he wants his name mentioned). He ended up producing pure strawberries, albino strawberries, anery strawberries and maybe a few more... His anery strawberries (I held them in my hand) didn't show the pinks of the Salmon Ghosts I own.

This is all just speculation on my end... Everything for me points it SHOULD be the gene responsible BUT I just haven't seen the proof yet.

To further complicate matters, I hear that IF you breed a Coral Ghost to an unrelated regular Ghost, PART of the clutch from the pairing will show pinks... Even Jeff Gailwood (JMG Reptiles) said that with EACH GENERATION of his Coral Ghosts (orig from Jim Stelflug) gets pinker and pinker when bred together. This is showing that the "coral" color of the Coral Ghosts isn't a simple recessive gene (Strawberry Hypo is an accepted hypo gene considered to be I guess a regular simple recessive-- if it wasn't, it'd just be a selectevely bred color morph).... There is defiently something going on and I believe in the next few years- as more and more of us work with these animals- it'll begin to be unraveled.

Sorry to muddy the situation mroe for you.... Heck, I could be completely wrong- just sharing my views and what I've seen for myself so far...

Graham...

PS, I'm a horrible photographer (and the photos don't capture the real pinks) but here's some of my Coral Ghosts
 

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Thank You for your input! I appreciate any info or opinions on the matter. Your right eventually things will be sorted out and we will make some sense of it. I forgot about the Coral ghosts. Do you think these are genetically similar also? I also remember some pink ghosts produced by the Loves which were a special project also called "Specter" Corns.
 
Thank You for your input! I appreciate any info or opinions on the matter. Your right eventually things will be sorted out and we will make some sense of it. I forgot about the Coral ghosts. Do you think these are genetically similar also? I also remember some pink ghosts produced by the Loves which were a special project also called "Specter" Corns.

Coral Ghosts originated from the same guy who started the Strawberry Corns... There's never been another line of Ghosts that even come close to the pink/salmon color of these (in the past there's been stuff like pastel ghosts that had alittle more pastel colors than regular ghosts BUT nothing like these). Read into it however you want...

The only reason I bring them up is because many people say/believe that the strawberry gene is responsible for the pinks in this bloodline....
 
The below info is pulled DIRECTLY from KJUN Snakehaven's website's cornsnake page concerning the Strawberry Corns. KJ is a very close friend and extremely knowledgeable in genetics and I fully stand behind what he says:
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Strawberry cornsnakes (which are very different from some pink snows that are sometimes called "Strawberry Snows" in Europe) are still somewhat of a mystery. There is no doubt that the line we have is some form of hypomelanism, is inheritable (almost definitely as a recessive mutation), and looks uniquely different from all of the other lines of hypomelanism currently available. That's where the "known facts" stop. It seems like this line has been shown unique by some breeders, but some others have found it to be allelic with various other lines of hypomelanism. New or not, the strawberry line definitely has some other lines of hypomelanism mixed into it somewhere resulting in some "false" results in various breeding trials. For example, we have conclusively proven that strawberry corns are not Lava or ultra. If not new, strawberry is just a very unique form of hypomelanism. We have confirmed that some strawberries are hypomelanistic Type A snakes, but some others produce only normals when bred to standard hypomelanistic cornsnakes. Even when breeding two strawberries together, some normals are produced; however, this line doesn't seem to behave like a dominant trait, either. Currently, the dominant/codominant hypothesis is being tested here in greater detail.
We truly believe that strawberry is a new gene (not allelic with any other forms of hypomelanism), but confusion has arisen since hypomelanism is mixed into the founding colony (i.e., Jim Stepflug) of strawberries. This means that some strawberries (but not all of them) are carrying the hypo gene while some hypos have inadvertently been misrepresented as strawberries. After two years of working intensively with a rather large group of strawberry cornsnakes, we have finally reached a point where we were able to produce - and isolate - what we believe is the strawberry gene. Unlike some people, we started with a large colony of strawberries - not just one or two to toy around with. Over the next 2 years, we expect to use these supposed strawberries (produced here) to finally give conclusive evidence: is strawberry allelic to hypomelanism type A or is it a new gene all together? If a new gene all together, is it definitely a simple recessive trait?

Strawberry corns - regardless of the actual mode of inheritance - are unique looking cornsnakes with clean to whitish backgrounds and deep red blotches. Especially as subadults, they tend towards having a strawberry-red and strawberry-orange overall color scheme. Even if this morph does turn out to be a new look to an old mutation, the look is so distinctive that it certainly deserves its own name, description, and personal spotlight!
 
John F (Zorro here on cs.com) has some ideas on the strawberry animals also... here's a link to his webpage's photogallery where there is a picture of an animal labeled "Strawberry Ghost". John has some great animals- I'm sure he'll share his views also....

http://coloradocorns.com/gallery?nggpage=2

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There's alot going on here with PINK CORNS...seems like multiple genes in multiple bloodlines- although these messages might not be directly related to your orig topic, you did ask about "Strawberry Morphs"... again- many feel strawberry is involved in some way or another....


To further complicate things, consider my statements from JMG Reptiles that EACH generation the Coral Ghosts get pinker and pinker..... Then consider this statement from KJ's (wwwkjunsnakehaven.com 's) write up posted above: "this line doesn't seem to behave like a dominant trait, either. Currently, the dominant/codominant hypothesis is being tested here in greater detail. " ... and my final point to let you ponder...ASK ABOUT THE "RED FACTOR" gene (is it strawberry? Only time will tell)!

lol- have fun...hope I've helped out!
 

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Yeah thanks! I have been interested in these ever since I first saw a Salmon Ghost! They are stunning! I recently got a male Strawberry/Hypo motley but I don't have a female. I am more interested in the ghosts than the snows. Even though the snows can be very pretty, the ghosts are my favorites. It will be fun trying to make some sense of this all for sure. Thanks for your input I will chase down those links you posted also.
 
I completely agree Graham. Great post. There are so many different varieties of pink (i.e. salmon, neon, coral etc etc) that there is definitely something ELSE at work, in addition to strawberry. We are going to have to eventually differentiate between what IS strawberry (by definition) and what is some other gene(s) in action.
There are most certainly a few other 'factors' out there that this intense red is attributed to. I think that there may be a 'strawberry' gene that IS allelic to hypo and then there are other 'strawberry' colored genes that are not (such as one that people are currently calling the red masque gene).
I know that there are plenty of speculations out there right now but there are also quite a few people working on this too such as Soderberg, Poppycorns, Pritzel and such in a similar fashion.
I am lucky enough to have a couple of 'pink' snows in a breeding loan with Don that are a result of crossing the salmon with the neon. I am excited to see what the outcome will be when they are old enough to breed.
 
I completely agree Graham. Great post. There are so many different varieties of pink (i.e. salmon, neon, coral etc etc) that there is definitely something ELSE at work, in addition to strawberry. We are going to have to eventually differentiate between what IS strawberry (by definition) and what is some other gene(s) in action.
There are most certainly a few other 'factors' out there that this intense red is attributed to. I think that there may be a 'strawberry' gene that IS allelic to hypo and then there are other 'strawberry' colored genes that are not (such as one that people are currently calling the red masque gene).
I know that there are plenty of speculations out there right now but there are also quite a few people working on this too such as Soderberg, Poppycorns, Pritzel and such in a similar fashion.
I am lucky enough to have a couple of 'pink' snows in a breeding loan with Don that are a result of crossing the salmon with the neon. I am excited to see what the outcome will be when they are old enough to breed.

Well said Tara.... alot of potential in these new 'factors'/genes/????? I've been breeding snakes and keeping herps for a long time...I've never seen animals this PINK before... the next few years will be exciting- people really have to see these animals in person to appreciate how bright they really are!
 
Well said Tara.... alot of potential in these new 'factors'/genes/????? I've been breeding snakes and keeping herps for a long time...I've never seen animals this PINK before... the next few years will be exciting- people really have to see these animals in person to appreciate how bright they really are!

I totally agree i have one of these PINK beauty's.... i think possibly a sister to one of yours...!!!! by the markings anyway.....
They are soooooo pink i am so excited about breeding mine to see what i can produce..
 
Specters

Maybe I'm biased, but I think some of my Specters are much prettier than many of the corals and salmons.

Unlike the salmon ghost, these have thick black rings around the saddles and the colors are more saturated without the white flecking seen on salmons. Kind of like a really nice okeetee but with a pink groundcolor and greenish/yellowish brown saddles.

Next year I plan on breeding them back to each other, the parents, as well as strawberry and sunkissed.
 
Maybe I'm biased, but I think some of my Specters are much prettier than many of the corals and salmons.

Unlike the salmon ghost, these have thick black rings around the saddles and the colors are more saturated without the white flecking seen on salmons. Kind of like a really nice okeetee but with a pink groundcolor and greenish/yellowish brown saddles.

Next year I plan on breeding them back to each other, the parents, as well as strawberry and sunkissed.

Cool so your the one who bought those from Kathy?
 
yup

Kathy was kind enough to share some space with me at Tinley. I brought all of my specters up there with me to show them off and get some other opinions. They seemed to be very popular from the responses I got. I even ended up trading a few really pink yearling males for some other cool cornsnakes (including a pied-sided hypo blood!)

I compared mine to both JMG's and SWWS Reptiles' salmon ghosts and they looked very different. Interestingly enough, when Chuck held a sunkissed next to a specter, I did see a resemblance. However Kathy stated her Naples line (from which mine came) were never crossed into her sunkissed.
 
So what (if any) is the difference between a CORAL ghost or snow and a SALMON ghost or snow? According to Ian's Vivariam a CORAL ghost is Strawberry and Anery. I'm wondering if people are just interchanging Coral and Salmon as the same thing or if they're completely different. I just want to make sure we're on the same page because we recently purchased 0.2 hypo/strawberry het anery corns and plan on breeding them to our ghost in hopes to make Coral Ghosts. Thanks!
 
So what (if any) is the difference between a CORAL ghost or snow and a SALMON ghost or snow? According to Ian's Vivariam a CORAL ghost is Strawberry and Anery. I'm wondering if people are just interchanging Coral and Salmon as the same thing or if they're completely different. I just want to make sure we're on the same page because we recently purchased 0.2 hypo/strawberry het anery corns and plan on breeding them to our ghost in hopes to make Coral Ghosts. Thanks!

Hello Sheenie99- I can't speak for everyone but I use Coral Ghost & Salmon Ghost interchangeably right now since there is just 1 bloodline (Breeders just recently started using the term "Salmon). There are 4+ different "pink" genes possibly responsible for Pink Snow corns (Bubblegum, Coral, Salmon, Neon, etc.).
 
0.2 hypo/strawberry het anery corns and plan on breeding them to our ghost in hopes to make Coral Ghosts. Thanks!

Check out Charles Pritzel's 2010 Morph Guide... he has pics of Strawberry + Anery (shows some nice subtle pinks...kinda like the pastel ghost males look) and a picture of Hypo/Straw + Anery (he refers to these crosses as "intermediates") that don't show ANY pinks. Guess you'll have to grow them up to see how they look... to get the pink Coral Ghosts, you might consider buying a real Coral/Salmon Ghost male to cross to those females (I only say this because watering down the strawberry gene- if it IS responsible for the pink color- a second time will defiently not give you offspring any pinker than the hypo/straw anery females).. Not hatin'- just trying to help... Hopefully those females WILL grow into beautiful pink animals... Good luck with the project- it's a neat one- can't beat pink ghosts!
 
Hello Sheenie99- I can't speak for everyone but I use Coral Ghost & Salmon Ghost interchangeably right now since there is just 1 bloodline (Breeders just recently started using the term "Salmon). There are 4+ different "pink" genes possibly responsible for Pink Snow corns (Bubblegum, Coral, Salmon, Neon, etc.).

Thanks for the clarification on the Ghosts, that makes sense and was what I had been assuming. So what are Strawberry/Amel/Anery corns called? Because the morph guide doesn't clarify too much, and ends with just calling them Strawberry Snows.
Thanks!
 
Thanks for the clarification on the Ghosts, that makes sense and was what I had been assuming. So what are Strawberry/Amel/Anery corns called? Because the morph guide doesn't clarify too much, and ends with just calling them Strawberry Snows.
Thanks!

LOL- I'm no expert in this field. I don't know if a specific name has been coined- Strawberry Snow sounds like a very cool name to me (not that I'm a naming authority) but it does clarify that the strawberry gene is used in their make-up. The Morph Guide can be a tad unclear in places.... I've had a few strawberries in the past when they were being developed but don't have any strawberries now (unless it IS the gene in Salmon Ghosts & Snows)... I WISH I had rack room for a group!

Thanks!
Graham
 
Maybe I'm biased, but I think some of my Specters are much prettier than many of the corals and salmons.

Unlike the salmon ghost, these have thick black rings around the saddles and the colors are more saturated without the white flecking seen on salmons. Kind of like a really nice okeetee but with a pink groundcolor and greenish/yellowish brown saddles.

Next year I plan on breeding them back to each other, the parents, as well as strawberry and sunkissed.

I'm not familiar with the specters, do you have any pics, please?
Thanks
John
 
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