A little rant on courtesy and professionalism

Okay when I first joined up in 04 I was kind of a newby and I know I made my share of dumb posts. So in the almost five years I have lived and learned and kind of grown. My breeding operation has grown, my sales have picked up a bit each year, my collection is much bigger than it once was. I am sure if I went back and read some of the stuff I posted when I was first starting out it would make me cringe.
Maybe it's asking too much, but I feel as if you kind of have to pay your dues and it takes time to make a name for yourself. Even if you don't plan to sell snakes but only keep them, are you that qualified to give advice when you are new to the game? Is it too much to ask that when someone who clearly has been doing this for a long time, makes a post they get the bit of respect and courtesy they have earned? If you read something in a book or a pet store owner tells you it's true but someone like Kathy Love is saying something different, could it possibly be that they know better? Is it really necessary to be belligerent and challenge them?
Oh and that professionalism should work both ways. If you see a newby getting hammered for some wrong doing, is it always necessary to jump on the bandwagon? I assure you plenty of people will be along to berate them for their cohabbing or whatever mistake they made. Just because you have been around a while does not make you such a better person, you most likely made the same mistakes and someone set you straight. Always remember they could be your next customer.
It just gets so frustrating sometimes to read some of what goes on in this forum, maybe it is the winter cabin fever thing but lately it seems like there's been a lot of this kind of thing. End of rant.

I'm guilty recently of asking a new member to provide a source of a reputable breeder recommending a feeding schedule of three days, but before he could do so, I found it myself in Kathy Love's care sheet. I made my post disappear!

I have noticed that too Jen, and been guilty of that as well. I read a post last week where a newbe was asking a silly question and got answers from 4 or 5 people who were all newbes themselves. I tried to set them straight and pretty much got told they didn’t need my help. OK….

On the flip side, I love to have a good argument. Sometimes I think I am guilty of piling on. Sometimes I twist the knife that others have inserted. I’ll try to be more aware of that.

After three years, I can consider myself fairly knowledgeable in the care and keeping of colubrid species. I have spent my time learning all I can from everyone and anyone who has had more experience than myself.

But even with all the knowledge I have gained, I still consider myself a novice in the field and try to avoid posting much advice, preferring to leave it to those who have been doing this far longer than I have.

I find it extremely rude when those who have no clue what they are doing get up in arms when someone who obviously knows more than they do posts the correct information. I would think it would be common sense to listen to the advice of the people who have been around the block a few times and know what they are talking about - but in this day and age - it doesn't seem to matter what you are talking about - there is always someone who "thinks" they know it all with no experience whatsoever.

The problem with people who think they know everything is that they are really annoying to those of us who do.

LOL at least it is not just me. After posting I got to thinking maybe it is not THAT bad, but maybe it is if others have noticed.
I have jumped on many a "noob-bashing" dog pile but I have really been trying to just stay out of them.

wade said:

The problem with people who think they know everything is that they are really annoying to those of us who do.

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I have to agree! Yes, you...er...I mean...THEY are annoying!

I try really hard not to bash newbies. Sometimes it's really difficult!

ghosthousecorns said:

I am sure if I went back and read some of the stuff I posted when I was first starting out it would make me cringe.

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I have and I do!!

wade said:

On the flip side, I love to have a good argument. Sometimes I think I am guilty of piling on. Sometimes I twist the knife that others have inserted. I’ll try to be more aware of that.

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Sometimes the situation requires it. Of course it's a judgement call of time and place and topic. Anything with the vinster garners extra attention . . .

On a more cereal note, one thing I started doing long ago is presenting my suggestions as "This is what I do . . ." or "This has worked for me . . . " If they want to bash back against that, more power to 'em, but it's going to be zero skin off my back. (I did feed every 3-4 days once upon a time. I don't any longer as it hasn't proven to make a difference to me.)

I'll shut up now so Wayne can get a word in edgewise, and backwards, and over the top.


D80

LOL

Well,been doing a long time and I stay open to learn new stuff. I dont like to reply to alot of threads where people are asking for help cause, every time I have, they didnt listen anyway. I am amazed by some of the replys I have read by people who are school teachers and others. I guess alot do post stuff out of anger and dont even think about what they wrote and how it will affect things , I try not to. I have noticed some of the more seasoned breeders avoiding this though.

Drizzt80 said:

I'll shut up now so Wayne can get a word in edgewise, and backwards, and over the top.


D80

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I'm trying to remember who started the "Wayne" thing. I'm sure I hate him/her. But coming from Brett, it doesn't bother me.

I try very hard not to respond in a totally negative way. Many, many, many times I have had to leave the room so as not to post something I may very well regret. I respond far less than I probably would if I was talking to someone in person. Lots of times I read a post and think, regardless of what I say this "person" will not get it. I do enjoy when some person far wittier than myself (Wayne) comes to my rescue and says what I really want to say but in a much nicer way. I also bothers me that those same rude ill-informed people get rep points for being rude and ill-informed.
I sometimes wish we had penalty points for those situations.

wade said:

On the flip side, I love to have a good argument. Sometimes I think I am guilty of piling on. Sometimes I twist the knife that others have inserted. I’ll try to be more aware of that.

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Please don't stop your twisting. I need to live vicariously.

Terri

Jen I really wouldn't worry about it.. I kind of like watching the "Feeding Frenzy". I really hope this about some of our attention ( whats a good word for it. I have one in mind it relates to a hoe. I don't mean a garden tool either.) I think it has to due with winter. I think people are breathing to much recirculated air. I am sure that i made some newbies mistakes. But I also Lurked here for years. So I think I learned by keeping my mouth shut. As for jumping on newbies. I don't really see to much of it. I use my IGNORE function. Also I pick and choice which read & reply. If I see a thread going down hill I leave it alone. Unless something witty pops in there. Besides I like watching "Wayne" have a battle of wits. Wayne huh? I missed that thread. Must have been one I choice to pass up on. That is it for me. I am off to read the Goodbye thread. So I can cry myself to sleep. Did I mention I really like watch our "attention hoes" in action.

Well, how about a couple of stories related to newbies?

(1). A long while back, a friend of mine told me about an interesting situation. He said he had a couple of local kids come to him interested in going snake hunting, because they had never done it before and thought it would be cool. This friend of mine figured it would be OK and maybe fun introducing these new kids to the hobby, so he drove them to one of his favorite spots where he had found some things over the years. They got there and the kids just bolted before he could say much to them about where to look and what to look for. He got preoccupied with his own hunting, but pretty soon the kids were coming back to him showing him what they had found. Surprisingly enough, those kids were finding animals that he had NEVER found there, and never even knew they could be found there. What had happened was that these newbies didn't KNOW where snakes wouldn't be found at, so they looked in places he had never thought to look. And sure enough, they found stuff that was in habitats that he had completely overlooked because he KNEW nothing would be there. THEY didn't know any better than to NOT bother looking there for something.

(2) When I was working for the Florida legislature, a guy I worked with, but in a different department, who knew I bred snakes came to my office and told me he had found a little snake several weeks ago. He said he wasn't sure what it was, so he described it to me. Well, he had found a baby corn snake. He told me how he had bought a cage for it, and had it all set up and was doing pretty well for him. I asked him where he was getting his pinky mice from. He looked like I had suddenly started speaking in Russian. You know, "baby mice"? Still the puzzled look. Oh, so I guess you are feeding it lizards then? Still the look like he didn't know what I was talking about. Well, WHAT are you feeding your snake, I asked. He said, "Earthworms. Isn't that what they feed on?" I was flabbergasted. Never, EVER thought to try earthworms with baby corn snakes..... :laugh:

Anyway, the point of this is, don't underestimate or rule out something a newbie says or does simply because they are a newbie. They may have a completely fresh perspective of something that us old hands have never thought of. And us being stuck in the rut of only doing what has been done in the past, we may be completely overlooking something because we can't see that other perspective. So give someone with a new idea a reason to express it without fear of derision and ridicule. There may be some new, really GOOD ideas out there that people may just be afraid of telling us about. In such a case, WE just might be losing out on something new to learn.

And just because someone does something different than you do doesn't necessarily mean it is wrong. It may be just as right as your method, work quite well, and only be DIFFERENT, not worse nor better.

I've just had the humbling experience of having to ask total newb questions on a forum of a different subject.

I did try and make my questions as clear and intelligent as possible and gave all the background info that I could think of that may help them in their advice. Everyone was very helpful and nice even when pointing out where I was going wrong. That being said... when you ask for help, you are going to have to be able to take it when someone tells you what you are doing wrong and why, otherwise they can't help you.

I've also found that searching forums isn't as easy when you are brand new at something. This experience definitely encourages me to help more people out here and to try and be more patient. Then agin, the newbs have to put forth some effort as well or they are on their own whether you help or not.

carol said:

I've just had the humbling experience of having to ask total newb questions on a forum of a different subject.

I did try and make my questions as clear and intelligent as possible and gave all the background info that I could think of that may help them in their advice. Everyone was very helpful and nice even when pointing out where I was going wrong. That being said... when you ask for help, you are going to have to be able to take it when someone tells you what you are doing wrong and why, otherwise they can't help you.

I've also found that searching forums isn't as easy when you are brand new at something. This experience definitely encourages me to help more people out here and to try and be more patient. Then agin, the newbs have to put forth some effort as well or they are on their own whether you help or not.

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Carol said it wonderfully. I have also recently had the shoe on the other foot in a new forum on a topic I was basically a newbie in. It is a very eye-opening experience! I don't try to bash newbies on purpose (unless they actually need to be bashed), but I do admit to not viewing many of the "Help Me!" threads. But then, I've found that in most cases, other members have already dealt with the situation exactly as I would have. I will go to the threads that no one has replied to yet (I actually like those best, especially if it is one that has been viewed 30+ times and still hasn't gotten a reply), or those that seem to have more replies than I think they should (that's the moderator part of me making sure there isn't trouble brewing). I"ll be the first to admit that I don't know everything and am still learning, whether the source is someone with more experience or a newbie with a fresh idea.

carol said:

I've just had the humbling experience of having to ask total newb questions on a forum of a different subject.

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I bet Carol got a lot of help because her post was clear and well-thought out, not this:

hai I boughtaafrikansiklid n i mkepingit inthsinkk becuz icnat aforda tank rite nowe so shud ifedit pelts orflakes &ihav apirana inthertwo isthat ok theyseem to rely lik each oteh.

Nanci said:

I bet Carol got a lot of help because her post was clear and well-thought out, not this:

hai I boughtaafrikansiklid n i mkepingit inthsinkk becuz icnat aforda tank rite nowe so shud ifedit pelts orflakes &ihav apirana inthertwo isthat ok theyseem to rely lik each oteh.

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Nanci, I really wish you would stop quoting me!

Susan said:

I will go to the threads that no one has replied to yet (I actually like those best, especially if it is one that has been viewed 30+ times and still hasn't gotten a reply),

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Good answer Susan. I do the same thing. I am most likely to help when I see that it is a serious question and nobody seems to be helping.

wade said:

Good answer Susan. I do the same thing. I am most likely to help when I see that it is a serious question and nobody seems to be helping.

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I do the same thing, but only if I am 100% sure of my answer I am giving. I do tend to reply to threads in which the person is being given bad advice (that even I know is bad... as I am a complete and total newbie, both to this forum and to reptiles) in the hopes that the OP will at least realize that there is a possibility that the first replies given are not always accurate and they should think about other options.

Again, I am a complete newbie to everything regarding snakes but I like to think there are different types of newbies. Some who really did not do any research before getting a corn and are not open-minded and others (and I'd like to think I am in this "group") who will listen to advice, do research and not overstep forum "boundaries."

I hope this post made sense or was at least slightly on topic...

EDIT: I do hope I'm not overstepping any boundaries by posting this... I usually don't post in the "insider's forum"