Palmetto arrived today

Originally Posted by Nanci

Great news! Does she seem in good spirits?

Not really! It didn't distress her too badly, but she's pretty much in a ball in her hide box. I think she'll feel better soon.

Originally Posted by Walter Smith

LOL..............never mind my question. Great news man !!

Walter
BOUT' CORNS !!

Funny, I had taken a photo to show you and was trying to upload it to post here, and then got really busy at work. It was like the grocery store in here earlier! At any rate, I had it right at the vent when I went to bed last night, and felt sure she would pass them overnight. No such luck...

Well she's probably blue. So hiding.

Here was the picture I took to show Walter. It was all the way down last night, it moved freely, it was just as if she was done trying!

The first thing I did was get a helper. She had to be restrained, but never got too upset. I took a small syringe of professional corn snake lubricant, and squirted it up the cloaca (no needle, of course). In retrospect, I should have massaged it in there, I felt like it all came out right before the first egg.

The first one took some pressure, I'd never squeezed a snake so hard!

Second one came out easy as spittin' out a watermelon seed. Two dead, but not yet stinky, appear to have been fertile eggs. Funny thing, I usually calcium dust my breeding females, and didn't with her. Mostly because I had given up on her being gravid, until she was so visibly so that it was time to cut back on food. I last paired her up with a male on August 9th.

It is my experience that the longer you wait, the more likely you lose the female. I avoid aspirating if I can, and was able to this time. I should have done this last night, when the eggs would have been more pliable and come out easier, I'm kicking myself for waiting. When the final egg(s) don't move all day after a night clutch, something is wrong. It will probably ruin this snake as an investment, but she's not breeding in 2015. Barring catastrophe, one of these males will be good and up to size by spring 2016 anyway, and it will save me from having to get one.

I bet she's going to be fine. She may thwart your plans and lay slugs- that's what my females do when I don't want to breed them.

I wonder, when an egg is right at the vent, exactly what part of anatomy it is in. The urodeum still? Or the proctodeum.

Glad you got them out Chip. Most of my steps I take in removing eggs is somewhat what you have done, except for the actual removal.

When the next egg in line is right at the vent, I use my thumb along the belly (vs. squeezing at the sides as in your pic) and apply silght pressure on the egg as if to push it towards the vent, but I'm actually keeping it in place as to not have it want to work back forward. Then I lube the end of the forcepts, insert the tip of the forcepts into the cloaca and once in let the forcepts open slowly, to lossen her muscle.

This give me clear vision of the top of the egg. Then with the foecepts closed I rub the top of the egg to be sure I'm on the egg.
You can feel a scratching feeling in the forecepts as if you were rubbing it on a piece of fine sandpaper.

Once I know I'm on the egg I push the forcepts against the egg in a closed position, then slowly open them to allow just the top of the egg to move into the gap, then I pinch the egg. Once I have the egg pinched, I slowly pull outwardly. Once the egg is being pulled, I can usually feel the female start to push as to aid in getting the egg out.

Pulling the egg also seems to put less pressure and stress on the female opposed to "squezzing" the egg out.

You are correct though in that the sooner the eggs are removed the better AND easier. If the eggs are left to long the liquid can start to solidify and once that happens it's just about impossible to get the eggs removed without surgery.

Anway, I'm glad that you got them out man.

Walter
BOUT' CORNS !!

Thanks, Walter. Actually, I did push along the belly with my thumb, should have explained that in my text. I just used that hand to take the photo, my left hand was just keeping the egg from traveling back up. That second egg acted like it was on a rubber band. In the future, if more than a couple of hours pass, I'll take action. Not to save the eggs (although that's a higher probability too), but to spare the female more difficulty. Next time, I will also try pulling the egg out, that is bound to be easier on the female. Wish I'd thought of that!

Sorry to hear about your bad luck. Thanks for sharing your experience though. All my females double clutched this year except one and I had taken her to the vet for checkup and Xrays thinking she had dystocia... Thankfully that wasn't the case and I was lucky.

Eggs hatched this weekend. None of the tesseras have complete patterns, wonder if palmetto influences that or it's just chance? The father has been good for throwing perfect stripes in the past, but I suppose there are lots of variables.

Originally Posted by Chip

Eggs hatched this weekend. None of the tesseras have complete patterns, wonder if palmetto influences that or it's just chance? The father has been good for throwing perfect stripes in the past, but I suppose there are lots of variables.

Congrats Chip !!!
Good to see something good come out of your experience with this girl this year.
Now, just another 2-3 years and you will finally see something visual from your investment

Walter
BOUT' CORNS !!

Haha, I'm hoping about 18 months! Spring of 2016, surely one of these boys (haven't popped them yet, but Murphy can't be THAT cruel) will be ready.