"Blued Steel" Pippies!

I'm still iffy on what all crosses have been done. Can someone compile a nice list of crosses/results so we can look at it all in one place and then try to come up with a hypothesis?

Also Joe, in case you were looking for another lavender line without hypo in it, those hets for sun/lav were produced by crossing lavender het amel X sunkissed. The lavender is not het hypo, so your hets aren't either. (BTW did you get anything from them yet?)

Here are the results I've been able to dig up. IMO we need to put these all together, and there are probably 2-3 times this many crosses that have been done and could be reported.

If anyone can fill in the blanks on the ones here, or add new crosses, please do.

Info would be for the following fields. If the snake has a name or ID tag or ACR#, use that so we can all see which snakes are related to what.

Year:
Breeder:
Parent1:
Parent2:
Anerys?:
Blues?:
Ghosts?:

(The list I've compiled would explain why I'm not convinced yet... )

I have a question about Marc's crossing; how can a SBGxSBG NOT produce ghosts? Or do you mean phenotype ghost? So, the blues don't look like a ghost but are genetically?

The Bayou Reptile breeding above needs to be changed. You have the parents that he used to begin the project. He bred a Blue Motley X Anery Striped in 2004 and produced Anery Motleys het Dilute Striped, which were used to produce this years clutch. Anery Motley het Dilute Striped X Same = Anery Motleys, Anery Striped and Blue Motleys. I believe that a Blue Striped is possible, but he only produced one Striped in the clutch.

He also bred a Blue Motley X Hypo Lav in 2004 and produced 50% Hypos and 50% Normals, but only saved Hypos het Blue Lav Motley which he has eggs from this year.
He also bred a Blue Motley X Pewter in 2004 and has eggs from the Hets for Blue Motley Pewters incubating now.

Here are two sample photos of sibling Lavenders. One is a Sunset and Lav sibling and the other is a “Ghost” like Lav and Lav sibling. I believe they are caused by the same thing, one just lacks pink. Since I do not have the hypo gene in the mix, there are no “Ghosts”, which would actually be Hypo Lavs in this case if we are talking about an allele with hypo. Since I don’t have the hypo gene in the mix, all I can see is the dilute effect on the Lav gene. I have also produced a hypo like Normal, that is not a Hypo. I have seen some variation in the Amels, but I believe that may be something that is partially mask, like the hypo gene is.

Bayou Reptile has been breeding the Blue Motleys for several years. I will try to get some more breeding results from Rob. I have somebody else in mind too.

Thanks Joe, and I look forward to seeing as many results as we can get. Here's the updated version.

Although the Dilute/Hypo allele theory is a nice thought, I believe it is much more likely that the cause of the Blue Motleys is an independent gene, that acts like the Dilute Gene in other animals. Just because Hypo is mixed into the group, doesn’t mean that it is an allele. The most likely cross anybody would do when they produced a Dilute Normal or Dilute Anery, is to breed them to the Hypo based equivalent to test for Hypo, which would mix the two genes together.

Since the Blue Motleys were found in a wholesale shipment, they had already been mixed up before anybody got their hands on them. The original Blue Motleys could have simple been Dilute Anerys het for Hypo.

A Dilute Lav mixed in with the Hypo Lavs, would have given Rich more headaches than if they were alleles. He could have thought he was breeding two “Hypo” Lavs together, but was actually breeding, a Dilute Lav het Hypo X Hypo Lav or any possible combo and produced Non-Hypo Lavs in the clutches. I suspect if I bred my Sunset X Hypo Lav, I would produce Lavenders het Dilute Hypo, unless they are alleles.

Originally Posted by ecreipeoj

Although the Dilute/Hypo allele theory is a nice thought, I believe it is much more likely that the cause of the Blue Motleys is an independent gene, that acts like the Dilute Gene in other animals.

Yep, I've just got "allele on the brain" because of the many other things we've been looking at lately. Marc's cross that didn't produce ghosts is a good start on that. The Pewter X Blue should be helpful too when they hatch... there's a 75% chance of hypo being eliminated from the equation.

BTW I was looking at mouse mutations again today, and there's an anti-dilute that when homozygous masks one of the dilute genes.

My crosses need to be changed, too.

Year 2005 Josh x Taylor = 2 snow mots, 4 anery mots, 1 dilute

Year 2006 Josh x Taylor Clutch 1 = 2 snow mots, 2 dilutes, 4 anery mots

Year 2006 Josh x Taylor Clutch 2 = 2 snow mots, 2 dilutes, 5 anery mots

No ghosts from 3 clutches, both parents are 50% poss het hypo, but unproven.

Confusion came last year when I thought that silvery guy was a ghost, but he isn't, not compared to real ghost mots.

I reserved a SBG male form Marc and plan on breeding it to a normal het anery poss het hypo, so I might contribute a tiny bit to the puzzle within 2 or 3 years.... I do have the 'advantage' that my normal het anery has very low risk of throwing in any fancy hets to confuse us cause her parents are not assumed to have been bred by 'serious' breeders with high end morphs. If so, I would be positively suprised!

sean and celia @ corsnakemorphs outcrossed theirs to LA wildcaught females to strengthen the bloodline. im pretty sure he told me he ended up recovering norms, blue motley, pastel motley, motley, anery, and ghost but but i dont remeber too well.


its a whole lot of fun watching this unfold, especially since i was scolded so hard that there was no such thing as blue motleys.