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Calico Corn Information?

Sounds like a tootsie roll commercial in the making ( for those of u who are old enough to remember ) I can see it now the sad little boy sitting there with his half eaten tootsie pop saying. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . "the world may never know"
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dont mind me I'm PMS'ing
 
Camby, I can understand that what you went through with that would be frustrating. To answer your earlier question, I do own an Ultra Caramel male that I plan on breeding and to be perfectly honest, with my limited knowledge and erring on the safe side. In my opinion the only 'pure' cornsnakes are locality collected and bred. Having said that, the 'purity' of cornsnakes is not a big issue for me, although I am interested in it. I really don't find anything about the many morphs to be 'pure' even given that they originated from WC specimens. Just my .02.
 
ForkedTung said:
Camby, I can understand that what you went through with that would be frustrating. To answer your earlier question, I do own an Ultra Caramel male that I plan on breeding and to be perfectly honest, with my limited knowledge and erring on the safe side. In my opinion the only 'pure' cornsnakes are locality collected and bred. Having said that, the 'purity' of cornsnakes is not a big issue for me, although I am interested in it. I really don't find anything about the many morphs to be 'pure' even given that they originated from WC specimens. Just my .02.
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Agree whole heartedly, at this point, I could care less about purity as long as the breeders are truthful with what they are producing and selling.

dc
 
I would love to hear don or rich's opinion on what this snake might be, but bloodwork is the only way to tell what all is in this awesome looking snake. All I wanted was to help people properly identify snake species. As corn snakes and rat snakes have divided anal plates, this clearly isnt of pure elaphe blood. The scale count on the head does however match the eastern indigo snake, whose males are known to carry red color. These are also the only snake in that region of the U.S. that have a single anal plate, grow to that size, and carry red coloration. If it was an indigo, it would be the first I have seen or heard of with this coloratio, making it special none-the-less.
 
P-eversole said:
I would love to hear don or rich's opinion on what this snake might be, but bloodwork is the only way to tell what all is in this awesome looking snake. All I wanted was to help people properly identify snake species. As corn snakes and rat snakes have divided anal plates, this clearly isnt of pure elaphe blood. The scale count on the head does however match the eastern indigo snake, whose males are known to carry red color. These are also the only snake in that region of the U.S. that have a single anal plate, grow to that size, and carry red coloration. If it was an indigo, it would be the first I have seen or heard of with this coloratio, making it special none-the-less.
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It is well documented the snake is from SC, Indigo's have not been recorded in SC in over 25 years. Not much of a chance it is an indigo. Plus, the snake was brought to a reptile show in Columbia, SC about a year and half ago. Several people held the snake and were able to really look it over. It was a small adult, probably weighing 250-300 grams and about 3 feet long, no chance that is an indigo, way to small.

dc
 
I wasnt saying that it was I guess I was kinda calling the owner a liar as no snakes in that region carry those characteristics .
 
P-eversole said:
I wasnt saying that it was I guess I was kinda calling the owner a liar as no snakes in that region carry those characteristics .
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Ahh, I see, missed that I guess. Nothing better than openly accusing someone of being a LIAR based on blury photos. Ever tried taking a pic of an amel motleies anal plate?

For what it is worth, I see a divided anal plate on my monitor, but either way, divided or single, I am not sure I have ever seen any species of snake in the US that looks like this guy.

dc
 
I agree with Camby, the anal plate looks divided to me too.....in fact it's divided in almost the EXACT same place as the diagram under it.
 
Jim Godfrey said:
Jeff Mohr saw it in person.
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I did.

I remain undecided.

The owner would not let me hold it. He had it on Saturday and I told him I would love to get a detailed look on Sunday and I would photograph it as well. He said that was fine and to stop by his table on Sunday. Sunday came and he decided NOT to bring it to the show. I never saw it again.

The guy who had this animal is well known for selling WC specimens and is a big collector and to my knowledge had very little knowledge or experience breeding cornsnakes. In our conversation at the show, he mentioned he did not capture this animal but it was wild caught at a large size by someone who contacted him. Per our last conversation, he sold the snake for a number in the thousands someone he would not disclose.

This last year (2009) would have been its first breeding year so if it is out there there are probably F1's by now. If he truly did sell this animal, then I imagine we'll here about it sooner or later as I'm sure the future owner will want a return on their investment. If something else happened to it (death, really a ratsnake cross, etc.) I bet we won't hear much about it in the future.
 
I sure hope it did get bred to something to see if this is a trait that can be passed along. hopefully it isnt like the white raccoons and stuff you see in the wild where the trait is a singular occurance.
 
Actually, P-eversole, albinism in the wild is not a "one time" occurrence, it's just a recessive trait. Both parents have to carry the gene, or be "het" for it. Even then, only 1/4 of the offspring would express the mutation.
 
I am not talking about albinism , which is very common even in wild animals. I am talking about leucism, which still retains some color( usualy in the face and feet), and is much more rare especially in reptiles.
 
I understand that I was merely talking about the rarity of leucistic animals. Very rarely are more than one leucistic animal found together in the wild whereas animals with albinism commonly have offspring with the trait.
 
MohrSnakes said:
I did.

I remain undecided.

The owner would not let me hold it. He had it on Saturday and I told him I would love to get a detailed look on Sunday and I would photograph it as well. He said that was fine and to stop by his table on Sunday. Sunday came and he decided NOT to bring it to the show. I never saw it again.

The guy who had this animal is well known for selling WC specimens and is a big collector and to my knowledge had very little knowledge or experience breeding cornsnakes. In our conversation at the show, he mentioned he did not capture this animal but it was wild caught at a large size by someone who contacted him. Per our last conversation, he sold the snake for a number in the thousands someone he would not disclose.

This last year (2009) would have been its first breeding year so if it is out there there are probably F1's by now. If he truly did sell this animal, then I imagine we'll here about it sooner or later as I'm sure the future owner will want a return on their investment. If something else happened to it (death, really a ratsnake cross, etc.) I bet we won't hear much about it in the future.
Click to expand...

My question is, why wouldn't he let you hold it?? Perhaps he was scared of allowing other corn-experts see it up close.

Secondly, if this snake was truly sold for thousands of dollars, one could have easily spent a fraction of that amount to confirm the species in a lab.
 
Thats what I would like to see done, and what I would do if I had this snake. Bloodwork is the only way to tell for certain exactly what is in this snake. That is odd that he wouldnt let him hold it.
 
Calift said:
My question is, why wouldn't he let you hold it?? Perhaps he was scared of allowing other corn-experts see it up close.
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I cannot answer that.

I wasn't too concerned on Saturday because he said I could take a detailed look Sunday....but when Sunday came and the snake was a no show.....well, you can create your own reasons why. :shrugs:
 
P-eversole said:
Thats what I would like to see done, and what I would do if I had this snake. Bloodwork is the only way to tell for certain exactly what is in this snake. That is odd that he wouldnt let him hold it.
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Does everyone really understand what is involved in "blood work" testing? To really check this guy out, you can't just test him, samples would be needed for different rat snake species and other corns all from his know egion and I think from other area of the state. Plus it costs tons of money to test. BUt then again, if we want this one tested, then why not start testing all the morphs? They started somewhere right? Testing is alot easier said then done, especially for those of us who wouldn't have to spend the money to have it performed.

dc
 
Someone please tell me where there is a lab that can conclusively determine the species of a snake with a blood sample. This would be a very useful service for lots of us.
 
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