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Rich Z's Blatherings Since Connie and I have retired the SerpenCo business, topics here will focus on topics of a more personal and general nature.

The purchase of lone or extra females..
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Old 07-01-2002, 04:42 PM   #1
Rich Z
The purchase of lone or extra females..

Recently it has come to my attention that another breeder has noted on their website that they will be charging a substantial surcharge for lone or extra females ordered from them. I don't really have any problem about what someone else does with their business, but I have detected a trend that may be resulting from thier policy that may be affecting my business.

Lately I have gotten quite a few orders for, you guessed it, lone females of various cultivars. Maybe this is completely unrelated to the circumstance mentioned above, but it certainly does give me cause to think such may be the case.

I normally make an effort to be as fair as possible, and I guess in return I hope people will be fair to me as well. But is it fair that someone may purchase a pair of cultivars from someone else, and then come to me for those extra females because they can get them cheaper?

Maybe I'm jumping to a conclusion here, and there is no relation to the increase of lone female orders I've been getting, but I need to bring this out into the open and air it out. Certainly some people will have legitimate reasons for only wanting to order a lone female, and I certainly am not going to interrogate someone to determine their motives. That leaves me no real alternative but to either set a blanket policy where I turn away those types of orders, or follow the lead and also charge a surcharge for those lone females as well.

So if I am all wet in this interpretation, please let me know. I have no desire to get people mad at me because of my policies, but then on the other hand, I'm not about to get shafted because of someone else's policy and be left holding the bag with ONLY all males at the end of the season.

Your comments are solicited.
 
Old 07-01-2002, 06:00 PM   #2
pipatic
well i did have the same problem,people just wanting lone females,granted my collection is alot smaller than yours,
so when selling pairs of corns, or other snakes, people would ask me to sell just female breaking up the pair,
so now ,say the snakes are 100 pr they want just the female ,i say sure 90 for the female 10 for male,they is not fair ,i say not fair to break the pair up,some walk, most still buy. they then have the CHOICE sell the male themself or keep as pair .
dont know if this is a good way or not ,
its something to chew on .lol
 
Old 07-01-2002, 06:13 PM   #3
SilverTongue
I think going with the PAIR option is best. Lots of people do that. My question would be. I dont want to buy two of the same immeadit family. I know there is tons of inbreeding out there but I will not cator to it. That is one reason I normally buy from 2+ breeders. Basically I would want 2 snakes from 2 different mothers. If that would be an issue then I swould just buy from expos.

Perhaps if requiring a pair set to be bought then offer a lower price. That way you are not getting shafted...and we the buyers will not feel like we are being raped.
 
Old 07-01-2002, 06:20 PM   #4
pipatic
most of the time they are unrelated, or may have same dad
and some times people want related .
but i find its best to be honest with the buyer ,leting them know if related or not
 
Old 07-01-2002, 06:28 PM   #5
Elaphe_Mo
I think requiring the purchase of a pair or charging extra for the female are both fair policies. Charging extra for the female does allow people who just want one snake as a pet to buy the cultivar they want, though I'm not sure how much of your business comes from these types of purchases.
 
Old 07-01-2002, 06:34 PM   #6
pipatic
i would say most of the selling would in my case would be to the buyer wanting just a pet, some times 2 pets , and are not bothered about the sex of the snake (s),


ps yes i do sell pairs for less,most of the corns i sell are in the20 --40 range... with normals 10-15.... i dont know what that is in usa dollars ,would'nt have thought much ????
 
Old 07-01-2002, 07:41 PM   #7
CornsnakeKeeper
I understand where the thought of this happening is coming from, but I don't like the thought of you changing your policies. I wonder how much business Kathy has lost because of that...??? If you also change your policies, whose to say that many of your customers won't start buying from Don? I know that you offer quality and if people want quality, they will pay, just a what if type of thing. Would you also make this requirement carry over to expos/shows? Myself, I have been thinking of maybe buying the females this year and males the next? I didn't decide on anything yet, but I had that option in mind. It really depends. I mean breeders such as Kathy and yourself both have a lot of quality and varient type snakes, but how much extra are people willing to pay to get your quality? I can't lie and say I that I can't find some of the morphs cheaper at a local expo or such. But, you do have that extra quality produced from selective breeding, so, it depends on how much someone wants the merchandise. I think this topic is very interesting and can't wait to hear what some more people have to say.

How many orders do you get for pets? (where they express that they want a pet in email or other)

I also, just wanted to ask if you tend to keep a lot of the males, because looking at your 2001 surplus list, you don't seem to have a lot of either left compare to the thousands you produce.
 
Old 07-01-2002, 07:41 PM   #8
Alicia
I don't think it's unfair to charge xtra. I do think it's unfair for someone to take advantage and only order from someone because they want to save a little. I ordered in April from another breeder and I ordered some pairs and 1 lone female (I already have a male of the same) I paid the xtra, no problem. My personal feeling is that I will probably make money off that female, as all the females I may breed in the future. If I was just looking for a pet I wouldn't care what sex it was and what ever cultivar I picked you could send me whatever you had more of
It's not fair for you or any breeder to be left with all males. Dog and cat breeders have been doing this for a long time (charging xtra for females that is) it doesn't matter if you never plan on breeding that animal or not.

Alicia
 
Old 07-01-2002, 08:03 PM   #9
carol
I am not sure if ordering from you would really save them money, after having to pay for more shipping and box charges, I would just bite the bullet and pay the extra from the other breeder. If it is a problem I would charge more for females. Maybe you can let people mix and match thier morphs? Like a female Candy Cane and a male Lavender, as long as they end up with 1.1 . I don't know why people prefer to have so many females, it is always good to have an extra male around. What if your female is ready NOW and your male is in shed or not in the mood? What if you have 1.3 corns in a certain project and your male dies? or turns up infertile. Plus, with more than one male you can keep your stock unrealated. And last but not least, if I am going to pay the big bucks for something like a Hypo Lavender and I can only afford one, you bet it would be a male so I could spread the love around. (Thats exactly what I did and fell so in love I ended up buying a female also later that season.)
Do what ya gotta do, people who whine about price are not interested in the animals wellfare and wouldn't make good owners anyway. They would probably be the same type that keep their animals in filthy conditions to make keeping them easier and cheaper, Then offer their babies at rock bottom prices that no humane breeder could beat.
Honestly, I think your prices are very reasonable and sometimes a bit too low. IMHO We are talking a lot of slaving producing these animals. It seems you may be better off producing less and charging more.
But that is just my opinion
 
Old 07-01-2002, 08:04 PM   #10
Rich Z
Quote:
I also, just wanted to ask if you tend to keep a lot of the males, because looking at your 2001 surplus list, you don't seem to have a lot of either left compare to the thousands you produce.
I'm not sure I understand your question. In just about every case, I am heavier in males than females, and this is normally the case every year. The whole point of this thread is because I don't want it to get worse and I am seeing many more instances of people ordering lone or extra females this year than I can ever remember happening in the past. I have been talking to Don Soderberg about this problem and he has seen the same thing happening with him. So something is definitely up.

Now this has always been a slight problem, but it normally will straighten out over a season by the wholesalers ordering a bunch of animals and not really caring what the sexes are. In such cases, they get mostly males and I tell them the lower prices are contingent upon them taking them that way. At shows, I will often take males of something like Hypos het Lavender and lower the price and sell them as regular Hypos. Or Amelanistics het for Butter will have the same thing done. It gripes me to have to do this, but that's the way it goes. At least it helps to equalize the sex ratio on the more valuable animals, but it's at a cost that may not be justified if I look at it long and hard enough.

I have found that I just cannot control the selling of lone females at shows. Tried it and it just doesn't work. So what I will do in some cases is to alter the price to let economics help me out. For instance, for $50 Blizzards, I will mark the males as $40 and the females at $60. That way a pair of them works out to be the same as if the price remained at $50 each. But anyone wanting a Blizzard and the sex doesn't matter will normally buy the cheaper male. And somone whom only wants a female will pay a premium for it. But this is real tough to put on a price list without having it look cluttered. I suppose I could do it, and may give that some more thought before too long.

But it is extremely disheartening to be at a show and have someone pick out a stack of nothing but females to buy. Sure I can refuse them, but it certainly would be bad PR to do that. Heck, at one of the Mid Atlantic shows, I had a bunch of people seemingly determined to only buy female Fluorescent Oranges from me. I resisted saying they had to buy pairs. And most walked away empty handed. This went on for HOURS. Finally I caved in and said OK and darned if there weren't two other people standing there that I had refused to sell lone females to earlier. I thought they were going to string me up. So of course now I had to sell them lone females as well.

Every year I get so aggravated with the shows that I swear I am going to stop doing them and only sell via mail order. Then I have a rash of problems shipping and swear I am going to give up shipping and only sell at shows. Anyone whom thinks this is all fun and games isn't seeing the whole picture, for sure.

Just a day in the life, I guess..................
 

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