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The Cultivars (morphs)/Genetics Issues Discussions about genetics issues and/or the various cultivars for cornsnakes commercially available.

Palmetto question
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Old 12-26-2015, 12:55 PM   #31
BeauBoi
*statistical analyses
 
Old 12-26-2015, 01:03 PM   #32
DuxorW
But the corn snake genome is not really mapped or annotated. There are like 300,000 scaffolds. If you want to identify the palmetto locus you will have to use a next-gen sequencing and mapping approach. That is simply how spontaneous mutations must be cloned in species with poor genome assemblies.
 
Old 12-26-2015, 02:10 PM   #33
MysticExotics
Quote:
Originally Posted by Distaff View Post
It is my understanding that the first Palmetto was just discovered one day in someone's yard. Aside from the distinctive stark white ground and confetti sprinkles, the feature I find most striking about this morph is the light grey iris.

This eye and the quality of the bright white, remind me a LOT of leucistic rat snakes. Now, I know that cornsnakes are ratsnakes, but the classification Pantheropis gutta (spell?) is specific to corns, and the Palmetto is marketed as a corn. Since no other cornsnake morphs look at all like the Palmetto, I am curious if that morph isn't actually a hybrid (or even a pure ratsnake?).

Does anyone have more info on this question?

Thanks.
With the fact that Leucism is caused by a genetic mutation that prevents pigment (melanin) from being properly deposited, and it can/does happen in humans and animals, I do not think the Palemtto is a hybrid. I think it is a naturally occurring defect that was discovered (just like Albanism).

We have a herd of deer not too far from me that has a few leucistic ones in it.
 
Old 12-26-2015, 02:28 PM   #34
DuxorW
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticExotics View Post
With the fact that Leucism is caused by a genetic mutation that prevents pigment (melanin) from being properly deposited, and it can/does happen in humans and animals, I do not think the Palemtto is a hybrid. I think it is a naturally occurring defect that was discovered (just like Albanism).

We have a herd of deer not too far from me that has a few leucistic ones in it.
Plus I did look into it and leucism in the black rat is incomplete dominant. So that pretty much eliminates black rat as a source. I'm in agreement with you for multiple reasons.
 
Old 12-26-2015, 02:33 PM   #35
MysticExotics
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuxorW View Post
Plus I did look into it and leucism in the black rat is incomplete dominant. So that pretty much eliminates black rat as a source. I'm in agreement with you for multiple reasons.
Every time a new morph comes out "hybrid" is thrown around. LOL
 
Old 12-26-2015, 02:52 PM   #36
DuxorW
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticExotics View Post
Every time a new morph comes out "hybrid" is thrown around. LOL
Yep. The only only one I suspect (other than ultra, which we may actually have a definitive answer on soon) is tessera, for reasons already discussed. But it looks exactly like a corn and is so cool that I don't care if it is.
 
Old 12-26-2015, 03:08 PM   #37
MysticExotics
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuxorW View Post
Yep. The only only one I suspect (other than ultra, which we may actually have a definitive answer on soon) is tessera, for reasons already discussed. But it looks exactly like a corn and is so cool that I don't care if it is.
I agree. I don't think it is, but I would say Tessera is a hybrid before Palmetto.
 
Old 12-26-2015, 04:38 PM   #38
Rich Z
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuxorW View Post
Yep. The only only one I suspect (other than ultra, which we may actually have a definitive answer on soon) is tessera, for reasons already discussed. But it looks exactly like a corn and is so cool that I don't care if it is.
I would be very interested to hear more about the study on "ultra". It would be nice to know if I had been lied to about them.
 
Old 12-26-2015, 05:50 PM   #39
DuxorW
The group that identified the amel mutation is sequencing the ultra allele. Finding the locus is the hard part. After that it's relatively trivial to sequence the alleles. But it depends on what they find and if they even care about this question. The info that they publish may not be enough to resolve this question if they are not specifically addressing it. If there are polymorphisms in the allele that are present in gray rats but not in corns then that would be strong evidence. But if the differences from the corn locus are relatively minor and they don't go out of their way to look at the sequence in gray rats, then we still won't know for sure.
 
Old 12-26-2015, 05:54 PM   #40
chris68
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Z View Post
I would be very interested to hear more about the study on "ultra". It would be nice to know if I had been lied to about them.
Rich I think you know this but for the rest of the class...Andy Barr produced the first "ultras" from his "Grey Snow" line, the line he used to promote as "frosted Cremes", Grey rat X Corn crosses...Whether or not the ultra came from the corn snake(s) used in these breedings, a grey rat(s), or it was just something that "popped up" initially in breedings has never been confirmed by him...As well as the story that there were two lines of ultra's, one pure corn, one corn/grey rat...It's plausible, but no proof has ever been forthcoming on it...I've had several conversations about them (ultras) with Mike Shivers. Andy's collection was full of "crossed" animals, per Mike. That Ultra and the Amel gene found in corns produces a visible het has always been interesting to myself. Don't know if this makes all Ultra based corns hybrids...Does make them suspect...but what isn't suspect in corn morphs anymore?...I kept "grey Snows" (aka Tequila Sunrises) for years...They were identical to "Frosted creams", but toned down some in their extreme "frosted" look...Kinda like you'd expect them to be with more corn genes than grey rat via outcrossing

 

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