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The Cultivars (morphs)/Genetics Issues Discussions about genetics issues and/or the various cultivars for cornsnakes commercially available.

new to bloodred..
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Old 03-25-2004, 06:02 PM   #1
ronlina
new to bloodred..

This is really just a random curiosity question, so I figured I'd put it here. I've seen a lot of pictures of various bloodreds and have seen hundreds of variations: some are more orange, some are more brown, some had grey and red in them and some are just solid red, or solid red with orange markings. I was just wondering: does the name bloodred refer to coloration exactly? I know there are always variations of colorations but I think this is the one that is the most varied that I've seen. Is there a "special" classification for a solid bloodred, or is it just the luck of the draw, as with a lot of cornsnake morph variations?
 
Old 03-25-2004, 07:37 PM   #2
SODERBERGD
complicated. . .

You're going to get lots of different answers on this one. Personally, I think the name is given to the entire package. Color and pattern. That's the way it's always been, but I'm being told folks are trying to split that up.

They say the patriarchs of this line were very red. Since I've never seen one that was the color of blood, I presume they were 'redder' than most corns. I think the name was more of a goal than a description.

Until recently, all bloodreds had many traits in common.
1) They have a non traditionally patterned belly that lacked all black.
2) Their mature coloration had little or no black anywhere.
3) Their mature markings "blended" with their ground colors so as to almost make them patternless.
4) Most were redder than most corns.
5) Also almost all the first ones I saw many years ago had linear dark stripes. Not unlike a striped corn, but not very dark. I still have a few with those stripes, but you don't see that much any more.

I think the target bloodred corn is one that has:
1) Little or no black as adults.
2) Almost no obvious markings as adults.
3) Non traditional belly markings. Usually red OR white OR red and white. Black specks allowed, but not black checkers.

As you say, today we see orange, red, brown in the so-called 'normal' coloration and of course combinations with recessive colors like charcoal, amelanistic, caramel, anerythristic and complexes thereof. Of course, we're mixing them with the popular patterns too.

Your question is prudent since the name they were given denotes a color. A color of which is probably the least common. That of blood. To me, your best standard is the belly markings or lack of them. Since many can have dorsal and lateral patterns like any other corn, the belly markings will "indicate" whether it's a bloodred or not. As it is with most things, there are some bloodreds that can even fool us with their belly markings. I have and know of others with pure bloodreds with a little black on the bellies, but not the traditional checkers. If one has more than small black flecks, I'd say it's probably not a bloodred.

Don
www.cornsnake.NET
 
Old 03-26-2004, 06:11 AM   #3
pewter
Hello Don,

I think you mean this snake for example.
 
Old 03-26-2004, 06:15 AM   #4
pewter
here are the parentīs

 
Old 03-26-2004, 07:51 AM   #5
SODERBERGD
Three perfect examples. . .

Thanks, Daniel.

Hey, when you are and Michael crossing the ocean? Bring some of your killer bloodreds and I'll buy 'em.

Don
www.cornsnake.NET
 
Old 03-26-2004, 11:24 AM   #6
Darin Chappell
I know that I am the lone voice crying in the wilderness on this, but I really have a problem with a color name being referred to an animal that everyone identifies by its pattern (or lack thereof) of its belly!

Personally, I think the patten ought to be named (I have suggested "Faded corns" because of the way the pattern seems to fade as it moves from the dorsal to the ventral, but that has never caught on at all) as a specific morph just like motley and stripe have been. It is for this pattern mutation that I believe a snake can be "het" (although, the pattern may actually be co-dominant, given the way "hets" look in regard to their patterns), and it is for the pattern that I believe simple genetics can apply.

However, the coloration appears to be a linebreeding issue. Don's bloodreds are different from either Rich's or Kathy's, and all three of theirs are different from others. You can see all the babies in a clutch exhibit the pattern mutation clearly, but the coloration is such that we label them A, B, and C examples of the "morph."

Further, I find nothing more stupid that the name "Anerythristic Bloodred," which literlly means the "Red-less bloodred!" I would suggest, therefore, the following:

1. Call the pattern mutation by a name ... chose one, I don't care what it is, but just make it a pattern name instead one referring to COLOR!!!

2. All animals that are homozygous for the pattern mutation are "X" just as all motlies are "motley."

3. Animals that are "X" combined with other genes (linebred or otherwise) can very easily have different names to distinguish them from one another: "X" mutants with deep, dark red coloration are "Bloodreds" and "X" mutant animals that are also homozygous for Charcoal are "Pewters" ... This is no different than noting the differentiations between candy canes, flourescant oranges, or butters, ... they're all "Amels PLUS" after all.

All of this is fine, but I understand full well that none of this will catch on by little old me asking for it. So, I have challenged several large breeders to come up with some sort of a viable name that meets the above requirements. There is just no reason for all of this confusion, in my opinion, but it will take some leadership from one of the "big breeders" to get things changed. Kathy Love said that she would try to address some these issues in her new book, but I would sure like to see some sort of census on this, reagrdless of that "X" name actually ends up being.
 
Old 03-26-2004, 11:37 AM   #7
SODERBERGD
I like the idea. . .

I've always had a problem with that name too. I think it's a great idea. You've started the ball rolling and I second your motion for changing the morph name to something more applicable. As you say, bloodred denotes a color and many heretofore "bloodreds" are brown or other colors. Step one was identifying a problem. Step two is suggesting a change. Step three is an untimed "brainstorming" session for potential names.

This is probably the perfect forum for taking serious and applicable suggestions. In the absence of a formal committee (which we don't need), popular consensus should be honored I'm sure some of you out there have some good ideas. Let's hear them.

Thanks Darin.

Don
www.cornsnake.NET
 
Old 03-26-2004, 12:39 PM   #8
pewter
The idea is good, but not new. we had this a few month ago:
 
Old 03-26-2004, 02:32 PM   #9
Darin Chappell
Yep ... there is truly "nothing new under the sun!"

 
Old 03-26-2004, 06:24 PM   #10
pewter
no ideas...so I start.

smeared

and we had from the other postings:
blended
diffuse
faded
stonewashed


hop hop ... we need ideas!!!
 

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