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Corn With BAD Attitude

M

maausen

New member
I need some help. I got a new corn three months back. He was okay handling wise for 2 months but for the last month has just been.. well.. a peach to be around. I will go in for a cleaning and he flies out of the hide reared back and ready to bite. Once I manage to get him from attaching to every branch and side of the tank, he really loves to bite me. They have yet to be hard but I do fear him wrapping.. I just have no idea why all the sudden he has been a mean snake but I fear I may have to re-home if working with him doesn't work..

He eats great 1x weekly on an adult mouse and temps shouldn't be a problem.. I just am at a loss as to what to do if I can't even go in for a cage cleaning without Jaws coming to get me!:shrugs:
 
I had ones like that. A few questions - how old is your snake? Where do you feed him? Do you have background info on him? Is he in shed? Do you have a female snake too?

I have one male that gets particularly excited during the spring. He's normally one of my sweetest snakes but is a bit challenging for a few months. My newest female will launch herself at you snapping while she's in shed (that was a particularly fun experience).

What I found works (for most but not all - just like people and any other animal personalities are individual): make sure you wash your hands with the same soap before handling or going into his tank. Mine do well with a natural scent. This way the scent is always the same. I would definitely take him out before cleaning his tank and never feed in the tank. Use gloves. I like gardening gloves, but I had a bitey python once and needed thick leather ones. Snake hooks are good too. This will give you confidence and his smell will be on the gloves. Go slow but confidently. Sometimes just work with him on just being ok with your hand in the tank. Once he relaxes with you present, leave him alone/put him back/go away.

Hope that helped a bit. There are many ways to work with them and I'm sure someone with more experience may have better solutions.
 
Thanks for the reply Raven. He is a 4 year old male corn. I feed inside the tank with all my snakes. He is actually a beautiful okeetee from Stephen Roylance!I'll continue to try and work with him but I know if I even go near the tank he will rear up and be ready to bite. I am hoping for more to chime in!
 
If you do the same thing over and over you can't expect a different result. There's a big difference between a corn that mistakes your fingers for a meal, and one that's scared and assumes a defensive mode. It would seem that yours is being very defensive. I don't like being bitten, and always flinch, even if the bite doesn't draw blood. I'm wondering if there was a traumatic experience in the past that is triggering his response. I'll give you an example. While cleaning my rack containers I left one slightly open while I added water. A male got out and coiled around a heat cable in back of the rack. I tried unwrapping him and pulling him out and he bit me 3 times. Now I had handled him many times before and he was always gentle. Now when I clean his container or change his water he rears up and strikes. I'm sure it's going to take me some time to handle him and gain his confidence that I mean no harm.

If I were you the first thing I would do is feed him in a separate vivarium or container. Then I would buy disposable latex , or similar, gloves and start handling him daily if possible. Don't pull him out of his hide, that's where he feels safe. Only handle him when he's roaming around his vivarium. The gloves will mask your scent and if he bites he will soon learn that it is ineffective and hopefully stop. Repeated gentle handling will hopefully calm him down. Good luck and let us know if you are successful.
 
I agree with Twolunger. It takes a ton not to flinch when bitten, even when it doesn't hurt. It's a reflex reaction. One that caused an eel to fly but that's another story. That's why I use gloves with a snake that has questionable/unpredictable behavior. It keeps ME calm and confident which helps the snake relax.

Does your presence by the tank alone make him edgy or just when you are in his tank?
 
Twolunger said:
If you do the same thing over and over you can't expect a different result. There's a big difference between a corn that mistakes your fingers for a meal, and one that's scared and assumes a defensive mode. It would seem that yours is being very defensive. I don't like being bitten, and always flinch, even if the bite doesn't draw blood. I'm wondering if there was a traumatic experience in the past that is triggering his response. I'll give you an example. While cleaning my rack containers I left one slightly open while I added water. A male got out and coiled around a heat cable in back of the rack. I tried unwrapping him and pulling him out and he bit me 3 times. Now I had handled him many times before and he was always gentle. Now when I clean his container or change his water he rears up and strikes. I'm sure it's going to take me some time to handle him and gain his confidence that I mean no harm.

If I were you the first thing I would do is feed him in a separate vivarium or container. Then I would buy disposable latex , or similar, gloves and start handling him daily if possible. Don't pull him out of his hide, that's where he feels safe. Only handle him when he's roaming around his vivarium. The gloves will mask your scent and if he bites he will soon learn that it is ineffective and hopefully stop. Repeated gentle handling will hopefully calm him down. Good luck and let us know if you are successful.
Click to expand...

Okay I will start feeding in a separate tub. Do you think this is him associating me in his tank being food time?

Raven said:
I agree with Twolunger. It takes a ton not to flinch when bitten, even when it doesn't hurt. It's a reflex reaction. One that caused an eel to fly but that's another story. That's why I use gloves with a snake that has questionable/unpredictable behavior. It keeps ME calm and confident which helps the snake relax.

Does your presence by the tank alone make him edgy or just when you are in his tank?
Click to expand...

Yes whenever I go near that side of the room he is ready to go at me.
 
and yes I flinch real bad when he strikes. I also have notices he is starting to hit harder when he strikes. He's getting more and more aggresive and I am sure it is because of my reaction to his bites and how I leave him alone after.

How do you suggest I go about this? I try to reach in and he immediately starting speeding towards my hand. I know I am going to get bit by the time he comes and when I go to pick him up he starts thrashing like no other..
 
That doesn't sound like a food response, however eliminating the possibility will allow you to move along to the other means of taming him. The gentle approach we usually follow probably won't work with him. Wear the gloves and if he strikes at one hand, pick him up with the other. If he is truly scared he will attempt to flee. Try to keep moving him from hand to hand until he calms down. He may musk, or expel feces, so you may want to have an old towel handy. Being timid in handling him will probably only encourage the bad behavior, so be carefully forceful. I would work with him every day and even twice a day if you have time.
 
There is a lot going on with your snake here. Definitely feed him in a separate area and use tongs. Try feeding frozen not live as well. I would also suggest going into the room that he's in calmly and ignoring him. Don't even look at the tank or react to it. Go sit near the tank if possible and read a book or play on your phone. Let your snake do his thing. Don't react to him or look. Once he stops reacting to your presence give it another minute and then leave. Repeat this process randomly a few times a day increasing your stay time.

Handling him will take some bravery on your part. Again, it's important to stay calm and nonreactive. Wash your hands and arms really well before putting your hands in his tank! Wear gloves. In your case you may need ones that come up your arms a bit or wear long sleeves to give you more confidence. I like gardening gloves (or the winter gloves with smooth rubber gripper bumps), they are thick enough but you can still control fine movements. You won't feel him strike you even if he tries. I don't wash my gloves (unless handling multiple snakes or soiled) that way they smell like the snake I am working with. Do not work with this snake while he is in shed or the day or so following. Give him his space during that time period.

Start with just calmly having your hand in the tank (this step does not work for all snakes and you may need to work with him out of the tank first then do this, but it is worth a shot). Remain still, let him explore and throw a fit. Don't try to pick him up and don't move. The goal is for him to realize that you are not a threat and he's not going to scare you away. Once he calms down take your hand out. Repeat this a few times during the day.

You will need to handle him more often than other snakes initially for small intervals. Again, with gloves. You may want to try a snake hook too. Calmly and confidently take him out. There is a possibility of him musking (which will smell bad very bad). If he is near your bed or furniture, I'd cover it first just in case. I had one that would whip her tail around while musking. Your snake will most likely be moving fast in an attempt to get away from you. Just keep moving your hands to maintain contact calmly but confidently (possibly a bit more firmly than your relaxed snakes). Once he relaxes, give it another minute or so and calmly put him back and leave him. Increase the times you are holding him after he calms down. Try to time some of these sessions with when he is naturally out and exploring.

Good luck! I hope it helps and keep us posted.
 
Twolunger said:
That doesn't sound like a food response, however eliminating the possibility will allow you to move along to the other means of taming him. The gentle approach we usually follow probably won't work with him. Wear the gloves and if he strikes at one hand, pick him up with the other. If he is truly scared he will attempt to flee. Try to keep moving him from hand to hand until he calms down. He may musk, or expel feces, so you may want to have an old towel handy. Being timid in handling him will probably only encourage the bad behavior, so be carefully forceful. I would work with him every day and even twice a day if you have time.
Click to expand...

I will work up to working with him so much for sure.

Raven said:
There is a lot going on with your snake here. Definitely feed him in a separate area and use tongs. Try feeding frozen not live as well. I would also suggest going into the room that he's in calmly and ignoring him. Don't even look at the tank or react to it. Go sit near the tank if possible and read a book or play on your phone. Let your snake do his thing. Don't react to him or look. Once he stops reacting to your presence give it another minute and then leave. Repeat this process randomly a few times a day increasing your stay time.

Handling him will take some bravery on your part. Again, it's important to stay calm and nonreactive. Wash your hands and arms really well before putting your hands in his tank! Wear gloves. In your case you may need ones that come up your arms a bit or wear long sleeves to give you more confidence. I like gardening gloves (or the winter gloves with smooth rubber gripper bumps), they are thick enough but you can still control fine movements. You won't feel him strike you even if he tries. I don't wash my gloves (unless handling multiple snakes or soiled) that way they smell like the snake I am working with. Do not work with this snake while he is in shed or the day or so following. Give him his space during that time period.

Start with just calmly having your hand in the tank (this step does not work for all snakes and you may need to work with him out of the tank first then do this, but it is worth a shot). Remain still, let him explore and throw a fit. Don't try to pick him up and don't move. The goal is for him to realize that you are not a threat and he's not going to scare you away. Once he calms down take your hand out. Repeat this a few times during the day.

You will need to handle him more often than other snakes initially for small intervals. Again, with gloves. You may want to try a snake hook too. Calmly and confidently take him out. There is a possibility of him musking (which will smell bad very bad). If he is near your bed or furniture, I'd cover it first just in case. I had one that would whip her tail around while musking. Your snake will most likely be moving fast in an attempt to get away from you. Just keep moving your hands to maintain contact calmly but confidently (possibly a bit more firmly than your relaxed snakes). Once he relaxes, give it another minute or so and calmly put him back and leave him. Increase the times you are holding him after he calms down. Try to time some of these sessions with when he is naturally out and exploring.

Good luck! I hope it helps and keep us posted.
Click to expand...

Yesterday I had to clean his tank so I had to get him out in order to clean. He was the normal pissed off guy I usually see but the gloves and long sleeves definitely helped. Is there any chance he would wrap and constrict? I guess that is my only concern.

I also noticed when I am holding him he has his head against my hand or arm and just barely flicks his tongue out. He moves slowly up and down my arm as if trying to find a spot he smells specifically before opening his jaws slowly and biting down. It is very weird. Instead of just nipping at me he does it slow and menacingly haha
 
I've had my corns constrict on my hand while feeding. It's nothing to be concerned about, almost like a really firm handshake. The behavior you described when he moved up and down your arm flicking his tongue sounds like a feeding response. I'm still thinking there was something in his past that caused his current actions. It could have been something like a person handling him and being bitten, and flinging him on the floor. Another thing I've seen is someone attempting to shut the lid on a vivarium when
their corn decided to try to escape, thus pinching its head. Both occurrences may result in a snake fearing subsequent handling. Anyway, keep moving forward with his handling and give him some latitude in attitude.
 
Okeetee's are one of the morph's known to have more "attitude", in general. You see it in some old school Bloodreds as well. I've had a fair amount of Sunkissed that are quite feisty as well.

Feeding outside of the bin may or may not make a difference, so don't be discouraged if it doesn't.
 
maausen said:
and yes I flinch real bad when he strikes. I also have notices he is starting to hit harder when he strikes. He's getting more and more aggresive and I am sure it is because of my reaction to his bites and how I leave him alone after.

How do you suggest I go about this? I try to reach in and he immediately starting speeding towards my hand. I know I am going to get bit by the time he comes and when I go to pick him up he starts thrashing like no other..
Click to expand...

You said temps should be ok. Do you have a thermostat controlling the temps? If the temps are too high, that can make them pretty cranky.
 
Ugh. This is my second attempt to respond. My first got accidentally deleted. Sorry I did laugh when picturing his knowing smirk as he chews on your arm.

So either something happened or changed to cause his behavior based on what you've said and that he's been fine for several months prior. Have you changed fragrances, soaps or detergents? He's also responding to your nervousness.

I would still wear gloves and clothes that smell like him and wash well before handling him (though your soap may be seasoning).

As for constricting, he should not be about to hurt you. Just keep him away from your neck and face. A bite to the nose is less fun than one to the arm.

It will take time, patience and dedication to work with him and see positive change.
 
Twolunger said:
I've had my corns constrict on my hand while feeding. It's nothing to be concerned about, almost like a really firm handshake. The behavior you described when he moved up and down your arm flicking his tongue sounds like a feeding response. I'm still thinking there was something in his past that caused his current actions. It could have been something like a person handling him and being bitten, and flinging him on the floor. Another thing I've seen is someone attempting to shut the lid on a vivarium when
their corn decided to try to escape, thus pinching its head. Both occurrences may result in a snake fearing subsequent handling. Anyway, keep moving forward with his handling and give him some latitude in attitude.
Click to expand...

Hmm i wonder what did happen in the past. I have never had a negative experience with him since he's been with me (that I can think of). I am hoping its not some environmental issue causing his anger. I cannot think of anything that would be upsetting to him..

If he does wrap around me, what do you do to get him off?

MysticExotics said:
Okeetee's are one of the morph's known to have more "attitude", in general. You see it in some old school Bloodreds as well. I've had a fair amount of Sunkissed that are quite feisty as well.

Feeding outside of the bin may or may not make a difference, so don't be discouraged if it doesn't.
Click to expand...

I will give feeding outside the viv a try. And yes I do have a thermostat. Im very safe with all of my animals and give them everything they need to be safe! (I'm a worrier like that) I keep a heat pad controlled with t-stat at 82-83 all the time and the other end has a low wat night bulb that runs during the day making it about 76-78 and at night I turn that off and it gets down to 74.

Raven said:
Ugh. This is my second attempt to respond. My first got accidentally deleted. Sorry I did laugh when picturing his knowing smirk as he chews on your arm.

So either something happened or changed to cause his behavior based on what you've said and that he's been fine for several months prior. Have you changed fragrances, soaps or detergents? He's also responding to your nervousness.

I would still wear gloves and clothes that smell like him and wash well before handling him (though your soap may be seasoning).

As for constricting, he should not be about to hurt you. Just keep him away from your neck and face. A bite to the nose is less fun than one to the arm.

It will take time, patience and dedication to work with him and see positive change.
Click to expand...

Oh I laugh thinking about it too! I imagine him being super devious. Before the behavior issues started, I would bring him out to clean his poop out and I swear by the end of the day he purposefully would poop again to show he was pissed I took him out ahahah.

I do appreciate all the help I have gotten on this post. I have another snake that is the sweetest boy in the world so having a fiesty one has been troubling to me. I just want whats best for the animals!
 
MysticExotics, has anyone done research on snake behavior as inheritable traits such as dogs and breeds? Like terriers being tenacious and goldens and labs being social? There was a study done on foxes and domestication that brought about "dog like characteristics" as a result of breeding the friendlier, calmer, more social foxes.

I've noticed that there are marked differences in personalities in my snake crew. For example: My anerys are more outgoing, attention seeking than my others. I had an extreme Okeetee years ago that was generally grumpy like you mentioned. I had thought it was just her. Would be an interesting long term project if no one has done it yet. If they have, can you point me to the research done on it?
 
Raven said:
MysticExotics, has anyone done research on snake behavior as inheritable traits such as dogs and breeds? Like terriers being tenacious and goldens and labs being social? There was a study done on foxes and domestication that brought about "dog like characteristics" as a result of breeding the friendlier, calmer, more social foxes.

I've noticed that there are marked differences in personalities in my snake crew. For example: My anerys are more outgoing, attention seeking than my others. I had an extreme Okeetee years ago that was generally grumpy like you mentioned. I had thought it was just her. Would be an interesting long term project if no one has done it yet. If they have, can you point me to the research done on it?
Click to expand...

I too would be very interested in this study.
 
I may have to start doing some research and data collection! I would be really intetested to see if there is a true connection in morph/gene linkage to behavior traits.
 
I've heard it said that the sunkissed morph can be feisty. I had found that untrue because I have 3 of them that I handled a lot as hatchlings. Then I went to clean their containers and the male bit me a couple times. Maybe there's some truth to it.

What I would love to read is some data that shows if the more aggressive morphs add tendencies to their hatchlings that are desirable, such as hatchability, or fast feeding response. Some breeders outcross inbred morphs to normals to bring traits back into the line.
 
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