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The Cultivars (morphs)/Genetics Issues Discussions about genetics issues and/or the various cultivars for cornsnakes commercially available.

View Poll Results: What name are you willing to call it?
None: I'm sticking with "bloodred" only. 35 68.63%
Episkiastic 5 9.80%
Diffused 7 13.73%
Other (please post with your answer) 4 7.84%
Voters: 51. You may not vote on this poll

Poll: are you going to call "bloodred" anything else?
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Old 04-15-2004, 06:44 PM   #81
mike panic
I couldnt agree more Joe

I think I will use the term Blood and attach it to any morph of the BLOOD corn. Why fix what isnt broken? If we take off the "RED" and just call them Bloods, we will still have an applicable, catchy name for these amazingly variable cornsnakes. Like you said Joe, the majority of people seem to want the original name or at least the Blood part. As I said in my first post, call them bloods not because they are red, but because they APPEAR to bleed. Thanks. By the way Joe, the Lava Okeetees are doing very well and are chow hounds(needless to say).
 
Old 04-15-2004, 07:51 PM   #82
SODERBERGD
I like that. . .

I called them that for years before caving in to the bloodred thing. Never did like that but blood I do like. Also already has brand identity. Like a Chevy is a Chevrolet, eh?
 
Old 04-15-2004, 08:03 PM   #83
Rich Z
Maybe this has been brought up before, and I apologize for not going back to check on it.

What are Amelanistic Black Rat Snakes referred to these days?

If you had a melanistic Yellow Rat Snake, or one that was more greenish colored than yellow, what would you call it?

If you had a Gray Rat Snake with brown blotches instead of gray blotches, what would you call that?

A long time ago, I had an orange colored "Greenish Rat Snake" from the Carolinas. Should I have called it an "Orangish Rat Snake instead?

And just how long has the term "Red Rat Snake" been used and has this name been applied to such things as Miami Phase red rat snakes, which often are not "red", or any other form of the Red Rat Snake that is not actually "red"? I believe that many varieties of the Red Rat Snake are predominantly orange, aren't they?

Would anyone rather swallow their tongue if their arm was twisted severly and they had to say "Anerythristic Red Rat Snake" or "Lavender Red Rat Snake"?

Just curious.....
 
Old 04-15-2004, 08:31 PM   #84
Darin Chappell
I don't know. I'm not sure I've met too many people big enough to twist my arm hard enough to make me say Rrrr...rrr...rr ... What you said there, Rich!

But hey, that's an interesting idea you've brought to mind. My ancestors, the native Tsalagi indians (Yes, I know I don't look it ... genetics are funny in humans too, you know!), had a homeland that was fairly synonymous to what we all know to be a large portion of the range of cornsnakes (SC, GA, FL, etc.).

Tell you what ... Since THEY were obviously the first to name these wonderful animals, and so many of us appear to be strong traditionalists here ... I'll do some research, and get back to you all on what the Tsalagi called them originally!



Just kidding everyone ... trying to have a LITTLE fun with this!

 
Old 04-15-2004, 08:41 PM   #85
Rich Z
Heck yeah!

I imagine that even the prehistoric cave people had a name for them. Probably something like "Smashemwithclubwedontcarewhatcolortheyare Snakes".
 
Old 04-15-2004, 08:43 PM   #86
Drizzt80
I would have to say that I pretty much agree with about 95% of everything that's been posted on this topic. I would just like to reiterate that, for me anyway, this discussion isn't really about 'changing the name' so much as getting rid of the discrepency of the bloodRED designation.

I have been using diffused in most of my discussions, but have to agree that I don't really like that name either, I guess that would put me in the camp of arguing for a name change but not having a suitable replacement! I also don't like Darren's episkiastic, but epi by itself does have a nice ring to it. Blood by itself is sounding like it's going to win favor. So be it, I'll use it too if that's the general consensus of those more important than myself. In reality, I'm not the one that's sitting at trade shows selling my wares.

I think a lot of this discussion is really saying the same things, yet different. If that makes any sense. I really get the feeling that there are several different topics being discussed in this same thread. Genetics and exactly what's taking place with the bloodred gene. Semantics with what the name 'means'. Usage/Explanation of the terms identifying phenotypes and genotypes. And probably a few others I can't pick out right now. My biggest concern is the contradiction in terms.

I know, and agree with carol and gardenmum, what Bloodred Anery means genetically and phenotypically. I truly understand that and don't expect to see a red animal when I hear that name. It just sticks in my throat because semantically it does MEAN a black only snake with red . . .

I would like to think the near 2600 registered users to this board are interested, conscientious, knowledgeable (meaning seekers of knowledge as much as holding that knowledge) people. Pretty much the 'cream of the crop'. (Fine, big brown nose to all of you!! ) The reality is the other thousands of potential customers that really don't give a rats butt about this entire thread, they just want to know what it's called. That's why the contradiction of terms sticks in my throat.

Regardless, just one last comparison of name changed versus other morphs we already have, and then I think I'll just sit back and watch the rest of this conversation (maybe!).

Bloodred situation:
Genetic vs Name/Phenotype
Epi=Bloodred
EpiCharcoal=Pewter
EpiAneryA=EpiAneryA
EpiAneryAAmel=EpiSnow
EpiCaramelAmel=EpiButter
and so on.

Compared to currently:
Genetic vs Name/Phenotype
Normal=Classic, Normal, Okeetee & Miami
Amel=Red Albino, Amelanistic, Reverse Okeetee, Sunglow & CandyCane

I think it's fairly simple really and a lot more cut and dried compared to what we already have to deal with (and makes sense semantically)! Back to the pewter (epicharcoal) X bloodred (epi), and you should get epi's (obviously called bloodreds) het for charcoal.

That's enough for me I guess. Whether it's diffuse/episkiastic/blood/epi/eclipse/other I've already said I would defer to those more important. Just please, either way, do it for the right reasons. I think a different name is important semantically. Yes I suppose we can go around the block again on motley and all the others that aren't. The difference here is that when I saw my first motely patterned snake and learned the name for it, it 'made sense' if you can understand that. A 'newbie' looking at an epiAneryA and being told it's an AneryA Bloodred just doesn't 'make sense'.

D80
 
Old 04-15-2004, 08:48 PM   #87
Serpwidgets
Again, nobody is suggesting that selectively bred "solid red, patternless or nearly patternless" corns should be called anything other than bloodreds. They don't need to be called "epi bloodreds" or "diffuse bloodreds" any more than a candycane needs to be called a "candycane amel."

As for "why," in general it's similar in many ways to why Pantherophis has been suggested.

I really don't think "blood" for normal-colored corns with the pattern will help any. It will be seen as an abbreviation. As Joe said, many many people already use the two terms interchangably.
 
Old 04-15-2004, 08:53 PM   #88
Serpwidgets
I also strongly disagree with the assertion that "everybody has known about this trait" for any considerable length of time. In 2001 I was breeding my "bloodred" for the first time. I asked on the forums how I should label the offspring. NOBODY had a clear answer. That was only three years ago.

Compare:

Question: "I'm breeding a candycane to a normal, how should I label the offspring?"

Answer: normals het amel.

I would still ask the question today:
If I breed a normal to this "bloodred" that has no increased red and a "motor oil" ground color, how should I label the offspring?


They are going to be het for a simple-genetic trait, but if I say they are het for bloodred, it is totally inaccurate because they are not very likely to produce any "patternless solid-red cornsnakes" when bred to each other.

What would you call them?
 
Old 04-15-2004, 08:55 PM   #89
Darin Chappell
"It just sticks in my throat because semantically it does MEAN a black only snake with red . . . "

D80,

It's actually even worse than THAT! The term "anerythristic bloodred" literally means, "a non-red, red as BLOOD snake." Make any sense to me out of THAT mess, and you can have my vote for King of the United States as a write-in candidate!





I now return back to my non-confrontational demeanor, recently adopted...
 
Old 04-15-2004, 09:00 PM   #90
Darin Chappell
"What would you call them?"

Normals, het for episkiastism.





Sorry, Serp. I couldn't help myself!
 

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