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The Cultivars (morphs)/Genetics Issues Discussions about genetics issues and/or the various cultivars for cornsnakes commercially available.

PILE-O LAVAS & LAVA CINDERS !!
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Old 06-17-2014, 10:04 PM   #61
kc261
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter Smith View Post
No, I sure don't.

Here is a question for ya, say I breed my Buttermint male to a female that does not carry the Cinder gene AT ALL.

How would those F1 "HET" Cinders fall into play as far as the sex ratio they would produce??

Walter
BOUT' CORNS !!
Since they came from a male, who is ZZ, they would all be het for cinder on the Z chromosome. So those het females would only make visual cinders when they pass on the Z chromosome...which is when they are making male offspring.
 
Old 06-17-2014, 10:05 PM   #62
DuxorW
All the females would carry the cinder gene on their Z chromosome and thus the vast majority of their homo cinder offspring will be male. Since dad is ZZ and has no W, he will give all of his daughters one of his Z chromosomes. Since he is homo cinder, the daughters will get a cinder Z chromosome from dad and a wild type W chromosome from their mother.

If my hypothesis is correct, you're gonna need a female homo cinder, or a female het that is the daughter of a homo cinder female. This is because the homo cinder female would pass down her cinder W chromosome to ALL of her daughters, making them het for cinder with the cinder mutation on their W chromosome. Theoretically they would produce homo cinder daughters in any pairing with a cinder/het cinder male, unless there is a crossover which could produce a cinder male. Perhaps you will get lucky with one of your clutches and there will be a crossover in the het cinder female (with the mutation on her Z chromsome moving to the W chromosome in the egg cell) that gives you a homo cinder female!

Now, I have ANOTHER possible explanation but it involves some crazy stuff happening, so I'll keep it "simple" unless my hypothesis is proven wrong!
 
Old 06-17-2014, 10:06 PM   #63
DuxorW
kc261 beat me to it! But yeah, what kc261 said!
 
Old 06-17-2014, 10:07 PM   #64
DuxorW
Quick! Buy all the female cinders and cinder combos before anyone reads this!
 
Old 06-17-2014, 10:16 PM   #65
Walter Smith
Quote:
Originally Posted by kc261 View Post
Since they came from a male, who is ZZ, they would all be het for cinder on the Z chromosome. So those het females would only make visual cinders when they pass on the Z chromosome...which is when they are making male offspring.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuxorW View Post
All the females would carry the cinder gene on their Z chromosome and thus the vast majority of their homo cinder offspring will be male. Since dad is ZZ and has no W, he will give all of his daughters one of his Z chromosomes. Since he is homo cinder, the daughters will get a cinder Z chromosome from dad and a wild type W chromosome from their mother.

If my hypothesis is correct, you're gonna need a female homo cinder, or a female het that is the daughter of a homo cinder female. This is because the homo cinder female would pass down her cinder W chromosome to ALL of her daughters, making them het for cinder with the cinder mutation on their W chromosome. Theoretically they would produce homo cinder daughters in any pairing with a cinder/het cinder male, unless there is a crossover which could produce a cinder male. Perhaps you will get lucky with one of your clutches and there will be a crossover in the het cinder female (with the mutation on her Z chromsome moving to the W chromosome in the egg cell) that gives you a homo cinder female!

Now, I have ANOTHER possible explanation but it involves some crazy stuff happening, so I'll keep it "simple" unless my hypothesis is proven wrong!
Yeah, thinking about it after I posted, I realize those F1 het females will determine the outcome coming from the HOMO Cinder (ZZ) father and not from the initial breeding with the Buttermint male, like I was thinking before I asked.........but then it kinda does.

Looks like I'm confusing myself now......

Walter
BOUT' CORNS !!
 
Old 06-17-2014, 10:27 PM   #66
Walter Smith
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuxorW View Post
Quick! Buy all the female cinders and cinder combos before anyone reads this!
Shoot me an email: Serpents2000@aol.com

Walter
BOUT' CORNS !!
 
Old 06-17-2014, 10:46 PM   #67
cguarino30
This has got to be the most interesting thing I have read in quite a while. Thanks all.
 
Old 06-17-2014, 10:56 PM   #68
DuxorW
I think punnet squares help make it clearer, if you can read my chicken scratch.

Here I used Z and W to represent the chromosomes and the superscripts c and + for the cinder and wild type alleles, respectively.



Above we have a female het for cinder on her Z chromosome crossed to a homozygous cinder male. You can easily see the results are half cinder male and half normal females het for cinder on the Z chromosome.



And above we have a homo cinder female crossed to a het cinder male. You can see that we get 4 possible outcomes at a 1:1:1:1 ration. Because the female is homozygous cinder, half the cinder offspring are male and half the cinder offspring are female. And we get cinder females that have the cinder mutation on their W chromosome.

You can use this punnet square for the other possibilities to get a more visual interpretation of the outcome. I hope nobody comes along and ruins my pretty explanation!
 
Old 06-17-2014, 10:57 PM   #69
DuxorW
*I swear why does my phone not think ratio is a word?
 
Old 06-18-2014, 12:10 AM   #70
DuxorW
Also on the second image the second genotype (het cinder male) has the Z chromosome erroneously labeled as a "C" chromosome! I need sleep...
 

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