PILE-O LAVAS & LAVA CINDERS !!

I don't breed snakes (but you are tempting me), but with a degree in biology, and a focus in genetics, this is utterly fascinating....

This is also interesting information with regard to 50% hets. If I understand correctly, a het cinder dam (assuming she got the cinder gene from her sire) bred to a homozygous wild male should produce a clutch of snakes, half of whom are het for cinder. Barring a crossover event, this would make all of the hets male, would it not? Meaning that one can assume with 99% certainty that in a het female to homo wild male breeding, all of the males are het cinder, and all of the females are not, or visa versa if she got the cinder gene on her W chromosome.

Yes indeed. Additionally, if you breed a female het cinder to a male het cinder and get cinder males, the females in the clutch would not really be 66% possible hets for cinder, as they wouldn't be getting a cinder allele from their mothers. Thus they would be 50% hets. This of course all assumes that I am right. I've seen on the forums where someone got male and female homo cinders from a het male x cinder female (other genes were also involved but they can be ignored), which supports my idea.

What we are missing is a female het cinder that is throwing female cinders. We need the offspring of a homozygous wild type male x cinder female. The daughters of this pairing should have the cinder allele on the W chromose they receive from their mother and a wild type allele on the Z chromosome from their father. When these daughters are mated to a cinder male, the cinder offspring should be female unless there is a crossover.

Walter, if this has been mentioned already, I apologize. Do you know the pairing that produced your het cinder female that is producing all these male cinders? Was it her sire or dam that was cinder? Or was she a phet that has since proven out?

If Duxor's theory is correct, it should have been her sire that was cinder.

Originally Posted by kc261

Walter, if this has been mentioned already, I apologize. Do you know the pairing that produced your het cinder female that is producing all these male cinders? Was it her sire or dam that was cinder? Or was she a phet that has since proven out?

If Duxor's theory is correct, it should have been her sire that was cinder.

No, I sure don't.

This is what I aquired that has started my Cinders, which all were produced by Carol.

1.1 Amel het Caramel Cinder ~ (from which my Buttermint came)
1.1 Amel het Motley Cinder ~ (0.1 holdback Motley het Cinder)
1.0 Lava Cinder
0.1 Lava het Cinder

and as mentioned in one of my posts, somewhere back in this thread, I don't recall EVER producing a FEMALE Cinder of any kind.

Walter
BOUT' CORNS !!

Guess you got unlucky and all those 3 females have the cinder allele on their Z chromosome. I'm guessing none of them had a female homo cinder as a dame. Carol has produced female cinder morphs correct? I'm interested in the parentage of those female cinders and the offspring of their daughters...

Originally Posted by Walter Smith

No, I sure don't.

This is what I aquired that has started my Cinders, which all were produced by Carol.

1.1 Amel het Caramel Cinder ~ (from which my Buttermint came)
1.1 Amel het Motley Cinder ~ (0.1 holdback Motley het Cinder)
1.0 Lava Cinder
0.1 Lava het Cinder

and as mentioned in one of my posts, somewhere back in this thread, I don't recall EVER producing a FEMALE Cinder of any kind.

Walter
BOUT' CORNS !!

And this is, I assume, the same Carol who posted asking if any one had produced any females? So it stands to reason that all of her cinders are on the Z chromosome, and since your stock came from her, all of yours are too.

Unless and until one of those rare crossovers happens.

The good news, I guess, is that so far all of the data we have seems to follow Duxor's hypothesis. As long as that continues to hold up, it might be a pain to work with, but at least we'll know what we are working with. Much better than just thinking you are getting really bad odds over and over and over.

^I think she has made female peppermints but am not sure, if so she may have some females with cinders on the W chromosome, just none that were sent to Walter.

I saw these pairings in her forum and have some predictions for each:

Amel het Peppermint Stripe X Peppermint Stripe
Should get equal sex ratio (chance aside) of homo cinder offspring since the female is homozygous and the male is het.

Lava Cinder X het Lava Cinder (multiple pairings)
I expect the sex ration of homo cinders to be skewed in all of these pairings. Maybe she will get a crossover or maybe one of the het lava cinders has the cinder allele on her W chromose, depending on her parentage.

Lavender Peppermint or is it Cinder Opal? X Peppermint Stripe
All offspring will be homo cinder and sex ratio should he roughly even.

Hypo Plasma X Lavender Cinder poss het Amel
All the female offspring should have the cinder mutation on their W chromosome and should be able to produce female home cinders when they breed.

Amel het Lavender Cinder X Lavender Cinder poss het Amel
Should he an even sex ratio of homo cinder. Het cinder daughters should have received their cinder allele from the W chromosome of the dame. When bred to a cinder male, the cinder offspring should be female.

Amel het Peppermint Stripe X Peppermint Stripe
Should get equal sex ratio (chance aside) of homo cinder offspring since the female is homozygous and the male is het.

Should add that the HET cinder females from this pairing (or any pairing where the sire is het cinder and the dame is homo cinder) have a wildtype Z from the sire and a cinder W from the dame, so will be "female makers" when bred to a cinder or het cinder male.