A little rant on courtesy and professionalism

Originally Posted by Drizzt80

[chain rattling]I've yet to see any evidence/proof that feeding breast and/or leg meat from a chicken is as healthy as feeding whole mice or rats.[/chain rattling]

The issue with the vinsters "feeding practice" was that it's not an effective replacement for the nutritional value found in feeding whole prey items. You want to use it as a supplement or save some extra cash doing it that way? Fine, be my guest. You want to tell me that it replaces feeding mice or rats? Your dead wrong and your snakes health will eventually suffer for it.

D80

I've got no plans to feed my corns on anything but mice, personally.

Originally Posted by diamondlil

I've got no plans to feed my corns on anything but mice, personally.

I know you're not. I've just read enough posts by people who seem to think the "infamous vinster chicken feeding thread" was about bashing vinster over an """innovative""" idea OR it was about not liking vinny. It wasn't on either account. That's all.

I'm all for change. I'm all for thinking outside the box. I'm all for new ideas. I like new ideas. I'm not creative enough to think of them on my own, but I feel as though I'm pretty darn good at making them better. Rich's two examples are perfect and I think they're great. The thing is, there was "evidence" to back up the idea of the change he shared. In the first example, the kids found new and different snakes. That's the evidence that looking in those places was a good idea. If they hadn't found anything though, it would have supported his buddies paradigm. In the second example, feeding earthworms isn't any different than attempting to feed chicken. The snake(s) will eat them, but the question(s) after the fact is whether it's the best possible solution as a regular diet OR is it a trick to use for non-feeders OR is it something that would be beneficial as a supplement.

D80

I know there was a lot more to it. I'd have to ask V-man if it's the sole diet for his snakes, I don't remember if he rotates it with mice. (And nooooooooooo, I'm not going back to re-read it).

Actually I was quite excited to read Rich's example of his friend feeding earthworms to his corn. I mean, MY snakes eat only f/t mice, but it's great to know that after I try chicken, tuna, brained, really hot, live, anole scented mice on my non feeders I have something else to try now, too!

Originally Posted by starsevol

Actually I was quite excited to read Rich's example of his friend feeding earthworms to his corn. I mean, MY snakes eat only f/t mice, but it's great to know that after I try chicken, tuna, brained, really hot, live, anole scented mice on my non feeders I have something else to try now, too!

I guess it isn't shocking that a hatchling with great feeding response might take an earthworm, but I'd be surprised if a problem/non-feeder that had rejected rodent pinks and anole or anole-scented prey would accept a worm. But who knows? I guess it's worth a shot if all else failed!

There's some thread around here where Mike Blickendorfer reported a successful feed of some insect grub to a hatchling, but I can't remember if the snake was a corn.

Here's Mike's thread (but the pics are gone):

http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/sho...highlight=grub

Originally Posted by Drizzt80

[chain rattling]I've yet to see any evidence/proof that feeding breast and/or leg meat from a chicken is as healthy as feeding whole mice or rats.[/chain rattling]

The issue with the vinsters "feeding practice" was that it's not an effective replacement for the nutritional value found in feeding whole prey items. You want to use it as a supplement or save some extra cash doing it that way? Fine, be my guest. You want to tell me that it replaces feeding mice or rats? Your dead wrong and your snakes health will eventually suffer for it.

D80

Well, let me throw a curveball here. Why would anyone think that feeding a snake whole mice fed only on rodent chow would be identically equivalent meals that a wild snake gets? If you accept the premise that you are what you eat, and that is inclusive to mice a well, are mice that are fed only rodent chow the same, nutritionally, as wild mice? It could very well be that feeding non supplemented mice are really not that much better than chicken........ It's not just the mice themselves, but whatever they happen to have in their gut at that fateful time when they were wondering what they heck that flickering tongue of that snake was, that provides the nutrition to the snakes.

To ask more directly, how many of you provide vitamin and mineral supplements to your snakes along with the feed items?

Originally Posted by Drizzt80

You want to tell me that it replaces feeding mice or rats? Your dead wrong and your snakes health will eventually suffer for it.

D80

That's a bold statement. If I wanted to read up on the suffering health of corn snakes that had their mouse diet switched to a meat, organ and bone diet where could I find that? If I had the knowledge your working from to form my opinions maybe I could have the same opinion as you?

Originally Posted by diamondlil

I know there was a lot more to it. I'd have to ask V-man if it's the sole diet for his snakes, I don't remember if he rotates it with mice. (And nooooooooooo, I'm not going back to re-read it).

Last I heard, he's back to feeding rodents (quite a few years now). The chicken diet started out as a less expensive food as he was having financial difficulties at the time. He may still feed the odd piece of chicken, but I'm not that sure.

Originally Posted by Rich Z

Well, let me throw a curveball here. Why would anyone think that feeding a snake whole mice fed only on rodent chow would be identically equivalent meals that a wild snake gets?

I doubt wild snakes are skinning and deboning their meals in the wild regardless of what they are eating. I completely understand discussing something for discussions sake, but comparing a rodent raised on rodent chow to plain white chicken meat with no organs or bones?

To ask more directly, how many of you provide vitamin and mineral supplements to your snakes along with the feed items?

I do even though I do feed whole rodent mice.

Originally Posted by Austin M

If I wanted to read up on the suffer health of corn snakes that had their mouse diet switched to a meat, organ and bone diet where could I find that?

You need to read the thread apparently. The vinster wasn't feding organs and bones, just meat, plain white chicken meat. I don't think my statement was too bold.

D80