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Controversial Discussion: Direction of This Site

No problem, Wayne. But I won't let this turn into a snakemaster, panda, crapola fest. If my grumpiness isn't obvious, let me spell it out... ;)
 
Roy Munson said:
No problem, Wayne. But I won't let this turn into a snakemaster, panda, crapola fest. If my grumpiness isn't obvious, let me spell it out... ;)
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I love the site, but hate the grudges, especially when they go from one thread/discussion to another, etc etc. I don't mind the political debates because I'm not well read on politics, so I always have something new to learn. Unfortunately, it's frequently like a bunch of unhappy spouses bringing up any and every hurtful thing ever done or expressed, and never being allowed to forget that indiscretion. One might think that it's been resolved, only to find that the next time an argument occurs, those same old darts come flying back again, with ever increasing vehemence than the last time.

I am NOT pointing fingers. It takes a curmudgeon to recognize that quality in others, so don't for a moment think I don't realize how guilty I am of this very thing. However, I think people sometimes forget that what we don't like in others is often what we don't like about ourselves.
 
Also can we cut the Snakemaster24 crap please it annoys the living hell out of me (Thats alot!). Everytime a troll comes we get people saying Look its David. I know I am not those people it just pisses me off
 
Roy Munson said:
Hah! Now that I'm no longer breeding, producing, or selling, I realize that I have far less incentive to be "nice.". Maybe you can sympathize! :grin01:
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Actually I can. It's pretty tough playing moderator to people who are likely past, current, or future customers.

But we need to bear in mind, that under the strictest definition of the term, "contributor" members here ARE still my customers. And those that are not contributing members, certainly may be future customers. So putting a velvet glove on the iron fist may be in order.
 
I don't care what gets discussed around here. There are a lot of people with a lot of interests and opinions.

But since I've been back I've been aghast at how personal arguments tend to turn. Personal in the sense that people use quotations from arguments about OTHER old topics to attack each other.

We've had passionately heated arguments before (before summer 2008), but when the discussion turned personal, members effectively policed it on the spot and it stopped. And they didn't do it by posting inane, irrelevant pictures of animals with stupid words attached, either. Someone personally attacked me once and there was quite a hullabaloo over it. Thread participants told that person to cut it out, that it was over the line and uncalled for, and that person stopped. Now (as of summer 2009), it seems that personal attacks in hot-button-topic threads are almost de rigueur. The people who do it don't stop when other thread participants call them on it, so people don't even bother to call them on it anymore.

I'd like to see that stop. It actually makes it difficult to HAVE a heated discussion of a hot-button topic, and I happen to think that those topics are often important and worthy of discussion--just as worthy of discussion here, on a cornsnake page, than anywhere else.

Maybe there could be a boxing ring subforum, and when that stuff starts, members could be told to continue in there, taking it out of the thread where it started and where people were/are trying to discuss something else.
 
I love it the way it is. If I don't like political threads, and I pretty much don't, I can ust not read them. The "other" place is boring. Not enough quantity. If you only need to check a site every few days to see what's new, pretty soon you forget to check it at all. This site is very, very active. That must account for something.
 
that should read: "as anywhere else." This money-saving we're trying to do sure has cut into my editing capabilities . . . :)
 
Rich Z said:
Actually I can. It's pretty tough playing moderator to people who are likely past, current, or future customers.

But we need to bear in mind, that under the strictest definition of the term, "contributor" members here ARE still my customers. And those that are not contributing members, certainly may be future customers. So putting a velvet glove on the iron fist may be in order.
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Well, I don't have a well-developed sense of despotism-- Zeus knows I've tried. I think that the mods have been too lenient. That includes me, of course.
 
I think I pretty well know what's on your mind Dean Most of the forum is fine without many problems. And what goes on in the personal forums, as long as the main site rules are not broken, is up to it's own personal owner to decide. It's certain threads in the General Chit Chat forum that is causing the mod team grief.

When a thread hits 400 posts in less than a day on a controversial topic because members immediately start taking an unyielding stance and instead of a debate of differing ideas/thoughts in a civilized manner, general argumentative posts prevail and quickly slide downhill into accusations, name-calling, and just plain argumentative posting. Why people can't simply discuss their differing viewpoints without one side or the other or both getting their panties in a wad because of what the opposing viewpoint said about one stupid thing or another is beyond me. There is a very good reason why many say that in some instances, there are certain taboo topics of discussion..sex, religion and politics.

It's been said on this forum many times...decide to involve yourself in this type of discussion and live with that decision, no matter what is said that you don't personally like. This forum doesn't discriminate against race, religion, sexual preference, political viewpoint, etc and yes, you are going to eventually come in contact with someone that holds an opinion that you absolutely despise. But I hate to say it, that person probably feels the same way about you and each of you should treat the other as you would like to be treated yourself. Their belief/faith/opinions/etc are just as valid to them as yours are to you and they deserve the same respect from you as you expect to get from them. And if you have a problem with that and simply can't stand to be involved in a discussion with someone of an opposing view, then simply stay away from those threads....period.

Now I haven't had time to proof-read this post as I'm cooking dinner between typing, so I may end up doing some editing after dinner.
 
I don't like to discipline unless an infraction is reported. Half of our reports, if not more, are nitpicky bs from one member against a "sworn enemy.". You guys don't see all that. It is EXTREMELY tiring.
 
I believe I can make the infraction system here whatever we need it to be to help cope with the negative issues. Warnings via the infraction system are just that: a warning to cease with actions that are identified as being counterproductive to the well being of this site. A certain number of the minor infractions and a temporary ban becomes automatic. When that temporary ban expires and IF the activity continues, then a longer temporary ban will result. And of course, a continuance of that activity will invoke a "three strikes, you are OUT" type of penalty.

As for the politically laced arguments, there is only one forum outside of the personal forums where that is likely to be ON TOPIC. The Chit-Chat Forum. Anywhere else and it is likely as being OFF TOPIC. This is not meant to quell discussions that naturally drift one way then another, such as is the norm in a lot of cases. What it is intended to do is to derail off topic posting that can be detrimental to the enjoyment and interest of the majority of the members here. In such a case, the mods have to be pretty much on their toes to apply that ounce of prevention to keep the pound of cure needing to be applied afterwards.

In any event, I will do whatever is needed (within technical practicality) to keep this site functional and attractive to it's members. Of course, it is just not possible to please everyone, but perhaps if you are in the minority dissenting group concerning a policy decision that is based on the best interests of this site in general, some introspection may be in order as to your own goals here.
 
This kind of stuff starts every Fall/Winter without fail due to bored breeders with nothing else to do... add now hobbyists with nothing to buy or no money to buy. Once the snakes come out of brumation it's back to business as usual... I try to avoid anything hot button and opt for the fun threads, or I just disappear until spring. I actually believe this is the latest I've stayed after summer, and there are a few others I've noticed sticking around, so it's not that bad...
 
Roy Munson said:
I don't like to discipline unless an infraction is reported. Half of our reports, if not more, are nitpicky bs from one member against a "sworn enemy.". You guys don't see all that. It is EXTREMELY tiring.
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Yeah, well I tried to implement an "abuse of the infraction system" infraction over on FaunaClassifieds, but it didn't work too well.

Generally speaking, if two parties are going at each other with wild abandon, rather then trying to figure out which one is the actual instigator, just give both a temporary cooling off period. There is only so much time available for reading all the posts made on this site, so some times simple expediency has to be the rule. This will also help drive home the idea that perhaps engaging in like attitude, regardless of it being simply in defense, is perhaps ill advised.
 
Roy Munson said:
Because I have considerable time and energy invested in this site. Now please answer the questions, or find amusement in other threads. Thanks.
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Roy Munson said:
I don't want to start deleting posts. Save the silliness for dyk.
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Roy Munson said:
No problem, Wayne. But I won't let this turn into a snakemaster, panda, crapola fest. If my grumpiness isn't obvious, let me spell it out... ;)
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Well I’m kind of in a crappy mood too so I’ll put my head on the block. Chop when you’ve heard enough.

Dean, your question kind of explains what answer you would like to hear. I hope I would be violating any rules if I don’t answer accordingly. I don’t see any thing wrong with a little silliness or light heartedness from time to time. Even in a serious discussion. Just my opinion.

I think some people get singled out and beaten up just because certain others don’t like them. The phrase “snakemaster, panda, crapola fest” might be an example of that. I don’t think that is good for moral for the person being slandered nor for the people who witness it.

If you think about it for a minute, we are all here because we enjoy it. If we didn’t we would go else where. There are posts that I don’t like and I don’t read them. But if we ban all the ones you don’t like or Susan doesn’t like, will the ones I like be left? Maybe, Maybe not. But this will be a different place than it is now and the people here like it now.

When I was a high school teacher I would let things slide a bit sometimes until it started bugging me enough that I’d get mad. Then some poor dumb kid on the back row would say something dumb and I’d blow up. I’d blast the whole class. We call it shotgun discipline. I think on some of the heated threads where a few people get out of line, a PM to them might be more effective than blasting the whole class or locking down the thread.

I also think that sometimes those heated threads are great for those involved and other who don’t like it can go to dyk. We have lots of husbandry and breeding threads. You don’t have to watch two people beat each other into submission. Did you notice last night how many people where “spectators” at the bottom of the hot topic?
 
Just so the public is aware or my policy, unless it is an EXTREME circumstance, my preference is for the affecting parties to be dealt with rather than closing an entire thread, depriving everyone else of the ability to participate in what could otherwise be an interesting discussion. It is rarely the topic matter itself at fault, and is normally one or more persons who are abusing the discussion. The abusers are the ones who need to be dealt with, not the topic matter itself.
 
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