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The Cultivars (morphs)/Genetics Issues Discussions about genetics issues and/or the various cultivars for cornsnakes commercially available.

BUF gene
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Old 02-24-2010, 04:43 PM   #81
carnivorouszoo
So wouldn't it then be prudent to find out what method was used to prove out the ultra gene and try that method to see if the results would be the same? Man, right this second I'd give anything for four of these bufs to work with. That is if they were all buf het caramel from the original lines.
 
Old 02-24-2010, 04:44 PM   #82
Russell
I'm glad all the name calling and nastiness has been left behind, I now like where this thread is going.
 
Old 02-24-2010, 04:44 PM   #83
Nanci
Quote:
Originally Posted by wstphal View Post
I keep typing replies & then not posting them. There sure is a lot of heat over this one. Could somebody explain why that is to this newbie?
It all boils down to many people believe the buf gene isn't proved out until it is tested with a caramel-only snake.

Now Charles Pritzel has apparently stated in the 2010 Cornsnake Morph Guide that buf _was_ tested with caramel. I haven't read the book yet, but that was stated here.

I think people would like documentation of that.
 
Old 02-24-2010, 04:45 PM   #84
Russell
Quote:
Originally Posted by carnivorouszoo View Post
So wouldn't it then be prudent to find out what method was used to prove out the ultra gene and try that method to see if the results would be the same? Man, right this second I'd give anything for four of these bufs to work with. That is if they were all buf het caramel from the original lines.
LOL! you and a lot of other people! But unfortunately they are in a different country.
 
Old 02-24-2010, 04:45 PM   #85
carnivorouszoo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russell View Post
the problem is I don't own the Buf gene, nor have I worked with it, nor have I followed that project. Chuck just tried to include as much as he could into his book with the limited space he has to spend. He probably could have filled the whole book on the different crosses done with Buf and it's results. But he didn't do that. He touches on it briefly that there is this morph, out there, that someone has done some work with. It's still being worked on...
If you don't have and don't work with it all I don't understand why you are getting so heated and saying that everyone expect the ultra thoery is wrong. . . .Man I am so lost.
 
Old 02-24-2010, 04:47 PM   #86
Russell
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nanci View Post
It all boils down to many people believe the buf gene isn't proved out until it is tested with a caramel-only snake.

Now Charles Pritzel has apparently stated in the 2010 Cornsnake Morph Guide that buf _was_ tested with caramel. I haven't read the book yet, but that was stated here.

I think people would like documentation of that.
but what kind of documentation? Ones say so, or a signed by a lawer kinda paper? LOL! Chuck's not available for me to harass just now. But if he said it in the book, he probably meant it as fact.
 
Old 02-24-2010, 04:50 PM   #87
carnivorouszoo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nanci View Post
It all boils down to many people believe the buf gene isn't proved out until it is tested with a caramel-only snake.

Now Charles Pritzel has apparently stated in the 2010 Cornsnake Morph Guide that buf _was_ tested with caramel. I haven't read the book yet, but that was stated here.

I think people would like documentation of that.
I should have my copy in the next week or so from Kathy so I will happily post what it says when I get it, that is if it has not before then.
 
Old 02-24-2010, 04:50 PM   #88
Russell
Quote:
Originally Posted by carnivorouszoo View Post
If you don't have and don't work with it all I don't understand why you are getting so heated and saying that everyone expect the ultra thoery is wrong. . . .Man I am so lost.
I never said the Ultra theory is wrong. I only said that a suspected caramel or het caramel CAN be proven by breeding to a Butter.
 
Old 02-24-2010, 04:57 PM   #89
Russell
this is what I have from someone more familiar with the project than I am. Bug came out of normals.

Buf bred to caramels gave caramels AND Bufs.

proving Buf was HET caramel, but not caramel. And I guess crosses were made that shows they are not alleles but seperate genes. Because there was no intermediate when the Buf to Caramel breeding was done.

I wish I knew more, but I do not. This is all word of mouth information, but then, hasn't most of the information we have done that way?
 
Old 02-24-2010, 04:59 PM   #90
carnivorouszoo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russell View Post
I never said the Ultra theory is wrong. I only said that a suspected caramel or het caramel CAN be proven by breeding to a Butter.
I meant except not expect, sorry for my typo. Ah but the results would be tainted with the Amel. Here we go in circles because you will say the amel is irrelivent, however how can you say amel plays no part if you can not prove that by not allowing amel to be present?

Basically I mean if you breed amel into it you can not say it is not the amel causing the issues. By breeding amel free you can rule out amel as an issue. In that way I think you could also rule out ultra could you not? I think people are mostly looking for it to be proven out that the buf animals are JUST buf with NO other colors causing oddities in the animals. I mean oddities like my Amel Mot het Caramel stripe being higher yellow than my not het caramel amels. The only way I can see to prove the amel is not having any affect whatsoever is to breed it out. I believe it was already intro'd wasn't one of the first pair butter? Thus the buf het amels already known? Breed out the amel to prove the amel is not in play that is what everyone is asking for. I know, not from you but in general.
 

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