Imprinting Scent on Captive-Bred Eggs?

dwyn127 said:

Well, I'm into day 5 of using this procedure. I put a pinky in a small souffle cup, added about a tablespoon full of water and used a fork to allow some pinky innards to mix in the water. I just dip a Q-tip into the water and lightly brush one single stroke onto the shell. Each day, I open the container and smell and so far there's no sign or smell of anything going bad. Then I immediately put the souffle cup back in the freezer.

....to be continued.

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The eggs were layed June 22 so today is day 60 and for the imprinting, day 10. They show no negative reaction to having pinky soup applied and are nice and plump; no where near to being ready so I should be able to get another 4 to 7 days out of this test.

Here's some pics taken today of the ingredients, 1 "mushed" pinky mouse and 1 Q-tip.

The next two posts will be of hatching day and results of 1st feeding attempt.

....stay tuned.

As of this morning, all 17 eggs hatched healthy "fired up" hatchlings. When I open the box I hear tails rattling and one literally jumped out onto the table. If their feed response is anything like their personalities the pinkies aint got a chance!

Results from feeding day 1:

Quick recap: Sire and Dam are sibling Upper Keys het "C" purchased from Rich's out-of-egg sale. Called Rich after they hadn't eaten for the first thirty days to see how rest of clutch was doing. Poor feeding results, only a couple eating, Rich wasn't wasting any more time on them. Finally I bit the bullet and tried an anole, immediate success. Every feed attempt after that I'd put the pinky in for two hours. When they didn't eat, I'd have to put a small piece of anole skin in the pinkies mouth to get them to eat. They were big enough to be on rat pinks when I was finally able to feed without anole scenting, exactly 33 meals. So when I saw this thread I knew I'd be trying it.

This pair are 1st time breeders so I don't have a 'non-imprinted' clutch to compare it to but here's my 1st time feed results:


Out of 17 eggs, 0.0.12 Upper Keys and 2.3 Cinders; 8 ate, 9 refused. Regarding the 8 snake's that ate, here's what I find most interesting, all 5 Cinders ate!

One thing I don't find to be coincidental is that problem feeders can pass that trait down to their offspring. I realize I'll probably see 1 or 2 more eat, but I'd say less than 50% eating is definitely out of the ordinary. I'll probably try a few more feedings, but will not resort to lizards so if someone likes to mess with non-feeders, have I got a deal for you!

Again, without having bred this pair before it's hard to say if imprinting works or not. I've talked to quite a few well respected breeders. While some say it's possible others laughed at the suggestion. All I know is I've got 2.3 eating Cinders...:dancer:

I'll post after the next couple feed attempts.

Awesome news Danny! Next time you could take the clutch and split the eggs up prior to scenting to create a comparison for your results. Of course, you run the risk of the non-scented group being all non feeders (if the scenting is working that is). :shrugs:

D80

Thank you so much for trying this out! I'm pretty sure I'll try it next year with a few clutches.

I'm interested in what the next month brings as well.

Hypothetical questions : The ones that didn't feed, did they not feed because of poor response, or is it just that they are not hungry yet? I know some babies have enough food reserve for very long periods after hatching, ie. a few I have just start feeding with no extra enticement after having hatched a full month before...

What would happen if the scent imprinting was done say once a week for the whole incubation period.. Ie. Is the time the brain develops the "taste" for prey perhaps earlier than when you started your experiment?

Wow, so many more questions for us to explore together. I know one thing, for almost every breeder I know this has been a coincidently HORRIBLE year for non feeders?!?!? Is it the environment or ?????? WHO KNOWS!



Thanks so much for the report,
Rebecca Purdom

pgr8dnlvr said:

Thank you so much for trying this out! I'm pretty sure I'll try it next year with a few clutches.

I'm interested in what the next month brings as well.

Hypothetical questions : The ones that didn't feed, did they not feed because of poor response, or is it just that they are not hungry yet? I know some babies have enough food reserve for very long periods after hatching, ie. a few I have just start feeding with no extra enticement after having hatched a full month before...

What would happen if the scent imprinting was done say once a week for the whole incubation period.. Ie. Is the time the brain develops the "taste" for prey perhaps earlier than when you started your experiment?

Wow, so many more questions for us to explore together. I know one thing, for almost every breeder I know this has been a coincidently HORRIBLE year for non feeders?!?!? Is it the environment or ?????? WHO KNOWS!



Thanks so much for the report,
Rebecca Purdom

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Great comments Rebecca! Speaking to the not hungry comment, all these hatchlings are large, larger out of the egg than some from other clutches that have had 7-8 meals already. They may still feel like me on Thanksgiving day. There's so many variables to consider it could take years before we knew if we're not just wasting time. In the mean time, I'll holdback or sell those that eat with minimal effort while the others go to the ''kings'' or the gamblers.

As an FYI on my side of the project...
So far only three out of six eggs have hatched from my first grayband clutch of the year. I am not sure if the rest of the eggs are going to hatch or not. If not, that is going to cut my test down quite a bit.
This clutch is from the same parents that gave me the problem lizard feeders last year - so I am hoping that even if I only end up with three - that it will give me a different result than last year.
The 2nd clutch is from the same sire, but a different mother - so I have no way of knowing if they would be problem feeders like the other clutch - and don't want to take a chance - so I will be scenting all of the eggs. Only four in that clutch though.

Lots of interesting info here but...

I still don't get why everyone chose mouse scent instead of just something easy like artificial strawberry, orange, vanilla, banana,etc flavouring....

The baking section of any grocery store is loaded with flavors to try, and it's way easier and cleaner.

Also, unless you plan to feed gutted pinkies, I am pretty sure the gut juice does not smell the same as the whole thawed pinkie.

It would be a hell of a lot easier to use a flavoring on the egg, then put some flavoring the the pinkie and offer it up, this is much more in line with the testing mentioned earlier, and IMHO far more likely to produce good results. I'm sure the eggs are not permeable enough to let particles of mashed mouse guts pass through the shell, where as the flavoring is 99% likely to absorb quite quickly. I would just chose one without dye in it.

Oh well, we will see what happens!

JustinF said:

Lots of interesting info here but...

I still don't get why everyone chose mouse scent instead of just something easy like artificial strawberry, orange, vanilla, banana,etc flavouring....

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When I first read this I thought you were going to suggest feeding fruits and vegi's! :sidestep:

I would if I thought it would get my wife on board a little more! That's the only thing she doesn't like, the dead mice in the house

JustinF said:

I still don't get why everyone chose mouse scent instead of just something easy like artificial strawberry, orange, vanilla, banana,etc flavouring....

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The practical side of this is that the generous souls that are trying out the testing will most likely be looking to sell their hatchlings as well . . . who's going to buy a cornsnake that will only take banana scented pinkies?! It's bad enough that some need to be lizard scent, soap scented, etc.

D80

I highly doubt they would ONLY take that scent, the findings in the study were simply they were more likely to take it, or ate more volume of the scented food.