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Husbandry and Basic Care General stuff about keeping and maintaining cornsnakes in captivity.

Aspen as a substrate = dangerous??
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Old 03-03-2007, 07:46 PM   #11
Jrgh17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Markey
Jenni, if her information is not sitting well with you then find another source to get information from.
I guess I don't get what the issue is.....
If you want to use Aspen, use it. I really think that the substrates that are considered safe are safe. It's really a personal preference.
As for taping eyes, I think that's insane......
As far as shedding goes, my snake always sheds within a few days after her eyes clear up. Just make sure your humidity levels are higher than normal and give your snake something rough but safe to scrape against. My snake loves to shed in the vines. She will also crawl through her moss piles....I love watching her shed!
Everyone has their own opinions as to how things are supposed to be done. I've seen two reptile vets who told me completely different things about my snake. You have to take the information, process it, and spit out the stuff that doesn't relate to you or that you don't agree with.
In the end, you want what is best for your snake and that's great. I've heard some really bad stories about some that don't.
I would find another person to read up on....just my opinion though and I'm a newbie to this site myself so I don't know much myself. I have had my corn for several years now and have found that I learned more just from owning the snake than from any reading I ever did. :0)

I don't think you understood what I meant by my post. Part of the discussion was on whether or not the information on Melissa Kaplan's website should be considered a credible source (that is, could be used to support the argument that a snake can be seriously injured by getting an aspen chip stuck in the vent). To decide this for myself, I looked at other pages on her website, evaluating her information with my own. After looking through, I found several instances (see my previous post) where my knowledge, experience, and the advice of trusted acquaintances goes against what the website says.

For instance, one of the places where I quoted Melissa Kaplan recommended that a stick-on fishtank thermometer be used for corns. Many people, including myself, would advise *against* this. This is just one spot where I find the information on the website to be faulty. Finding a fairly high amount of information that I consider to be faulty is a good indicator that other information on the site could be incorrect. Thus, I've drawn the tentative conclusion that Melissa Kaplan's website may not be the most credible source. I also felt other members who were interested in participating in the discussion should see the examples that I saw.

There was never any question of whether or not I would change my husbandry practices to fit the recommendations on the website (as what I'm currently doing is working very well for me), although I am interested to see if there is any proof available to show that aspen is a hazardous substrate. I can still only find two individuals who feel aspen can hurt a snake (those two people being the guy on the other forum and Melissa Kaplan). And after some evaluation, I do not see Melissa Kaplan as being a very reputable source.
 
Old 03-03-2007, 08:03 PM   #12
Hypancistrus
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jrgh17
There was never any question of whether or not I would change my husbandry practices to fit the recommendations on the website (as what I'm currently doing is working very well for me), although I am interested to see if there is any proof available to show that aspen is a hazardous substrate. I can still only find two individuals who feel aspen can hurt a snake (those two people being the guy on the other forum and Melissa Kaplan). And after some evaluation, I do not see Melissa Kaplan as being a very reputable source.
Don't forget this guy, who just recently posted in that same thread when I queried the group for more information on the dangers of aspen as a substrate.

Quote:
I bought a ball for a friend through someone at the local herp society, and the animal came with a cage and a plethora of aspen bedding already in the cage...Do you know what I found? Fosslized bp poop buried under the 1.5 inch layer of aspen. Don't tell me that aspen is an easier substrate to notice feces in...Snakes move and stir up their particle supstrate...end of story,
So aspen is dangerous because the snakes turn their poop over INTO the aspen where it "fossilizes."

As I replied... a responsible snake owner knows that poop follows a feeding, about 2-3 days later. No poop, and ya go looking for it, you know?? I don't see the big deal. I'd hate to keep my snake on cold, sterile "shelf liner" like this guy reccomends....

Oh, and this person who advocates carpeting for your snakes.
Quote:
Next time your snake is about to pee/poo, hold it. As you are holding it..look at it and watch the insides come out. When that happens you will then see it suck back in. If aspen touches that it will suck in with it. That is never a good thing. Carpet works GREAT! Mine has never had strings or stuff that my snake can get stuck in and if there ever were strings...its simple..CUT THEM! As far as the snake getting below the carpet and touching hot glass...if you cut the carpet right..IT WON"T HAPPEN! It should fit tightly. Currently all my snakes and lizards are kept on carpet.
I said carpet was too difficult to clean and they responded that they have 20 cages to clean and carpet in every one and they just have two pieces of carpet and bleach it every time it gets pooed on. This individual must have a LOT of time on their hands, especially since they keep lizards, which crap with way more frequency than any snake.
 
Old 03-03-2007, 08:08 PM   #13
Hypancistrus
Does anyone know if I am allowed to link this other forum, or is that frowned upon??

I am laughing so hard at what some of these folks are saying....
 
Old 03-03-2007, 08:10 PM   #14
diamondlil
This guy's snake's insides come out when it deficates? That's a bit of an over-the-top description of the tiny bit of vent that shows, IMO
 
Old 03-03-2007, 08:13 PM   #15
Jrgh17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hypancistrus
Does anyone know if I am allowed to link this other forum, or is that frowned upon??

I am laughing so hard at what some of these folks are saying....
I think this might be an instance where it would be acceptable... but don't quote me on it.

(Cuz let's be honest... I want to see too!!! )
 
Old 03-03-2007, 08:13 PM   #16
Hypancistrus
Well, there was apparently some confusion there as Waldo apparently said that the picture they were referring to was actually of a ball python's hemipenes which should only "appear" during breeding, right? Not during defecation?? I don't think I'd want to let me snakes breed on aspen, but then again, they "do it" in the wild over all sorts of particulate substrates.
 
Old 03-03-2007, 08:16 PM   #17
diamondlil
Quote:
Originally Posted by diamondlil
This guy's snake's insides come out when it deficates? That's a bit of an over-the-top description of the tiny bit of vent that shows, IMO
Erm, just thought I'd add, I don't make a habit of studying my snakes going , I just noticed when Norwood used to poop every handling, that he'd raise his tail and a little bit of vent would show..........I'm making it worse, aren't I?!
 
Old 03-03-2007, 08:21 PM   #18
Hypancistrus
Quote:
Originally Posted by diamondlil
Erm, just thought I'd add, I don't make a habit of studying my snakes going , I just noticed when Norwood used to poop every handling, that he'd raise his tail and a little bit of vent would show..........I'm making it worse, aren't I?!
Did you ever see anything get stuck to that vent though?? All I am asking for from these people is some form of evidence other than wild conjecture and Melissa Kaplan to show that this is a "risk." When I ask they counter with "So we need to see evidence for everything?? Did we need evidence to know DDT is bad?"

It's like... what does that have to do with anything?? All I am left thinking now is that these people are crackpots....

If Kathy and Rich and other large breeders can raise all of their hundreds of breeding stock on aspen and never see an issue with it, then why would I suppose that the risk to my pet snake is so great it warrants being compared with smoking cigarettes as a human??
 
Old 03-03-2007, 08:30 PM   #19
diamondlil
The ddt analogy is totally off too. Studies of birds showed thinning of shells and reduction in hatching rates in comprehensive studies, so there is proof
http://www.eap.mcgill.ca/magrack/jpr/jpr_14.htm
 
Old 03-03-2007, 08:48 PM   #20
SnakeAround
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaemoNox
Melissa Kaplan is a known PETA supporter, and has been quoted to say that she wants to see reptiles banned completely as pets; and it is widely know how contradicting her information is.

I would not use terry cloth towels, the risk for a tooth getting caught on it while the snake is feeding and end up swallowing the substrate is just too high (it happened with newspaper or paper towels even, which have smoother surfaces then the cloth does). You also have to be careful with the glue on the self stick tiles, when heated up they can off-gas fumes which could be dangerous for the snake. The cloacak infections from deficating is highly unlikely, as nothing comes out that goes back in when they go to the bathroom. Breeding on aspen is another thing, but still I havent yet heard of anything happening other then the possibility of the shavings sticking to the male. Corns are highly natural burrowers, hatchlings will spend most of their time hidden as its often the difference between life and death in the wild (in the wild they would be under leaf and plant matter, which I've found aspen to simulate the closest too).
I have been using aspen shavings (both finely shredded and coarser shavings) for years with absolutely no problem, even when feeding on it. Baby snakes are kept on newspaper untill they're big enough to handle small pieces incase its ingested.
I could not resist the possibility to mention that a couple of months ago a tiger or reticulated python (not sure of species and location) swallowed his electrical blanket (used as a heat source) when somehow it got into his mouth while eating...... it was operated on and survived.
 

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