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COHABBING QUESTIONS AND ADVICE

To the OP: I think the reason you have been "attacked" by some members of this forum is because you keep bringing up the issue. When you come to a forum and ask for advice on something and then completely blow people off and decide to do what you want instead, people are going to be upset. This forum is full of people who are very passionate about snakes and strive to take care of them to the best of their abilities. You have to understand that many people within the reptile community consider cohabbing to be animal cruelty. How can you expect people not to get upset when you say "Oh hey, I know all these bad things can happen, but I don't care because it's more amusing to me to watch them interact."

This is a PUBLIC forum. When you ask for advice you have to be ready to receive opinions on both sides of the issue. If you don't like it, nobody is forcing you to be here...
 
AliCat37 said:
No, it is simply a scientific fact that snakes do not have emotions. They are very flat brained animals, they have hardly any surface area that allows for neutron firing. Animals that have many folds in their brains, such as elephants, chimps, humans, and dogs, are very social animals. Animals with higher intelligences tend to be social because they have to work together to solve problems, like packs of wolves must be able to communicate with each other in a cooperative manner to bring down an elk. Snakes have evolved on this planet for millions of years being solitary, showing no change to their brain structures. Reptiles only have the part of the brain (we have it too) fittingly called the reptillian complex. This allows for basic survival functions that allows one to breathe without having to constantly think about doing it. It is also where instinctual behaviours such as aggression, dominance, territoriality, and ritual displays come from. This is the ONLY part of the brain that reptiles possess. More complex animals possess the folded areas of the brain, the paleomammalian and the neomammalian complexes, which allow for emotion and, with the neomammalian complex, the ability for planning, thought, language, and abstracts. Since snakes and other reptiles lack these parts of brains, what takes place in them is also lacking in reptiles.

I can also tell you from experience, that if I place another one of my snakes in with each other, there is instant chasing and dominance and fear behaviors.
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I think it is a losing battle to try to change the "mind" of this one.
You have heard the saying "Actions speak louder than words".

His actions SCREAM that he just does not care whether his animals live or die, no matter what he says.
We said all we can do to try to educate him, he is about as educated on this as he will ever be.
So, it is not ignorance.

It is just not caring what happens to them.
 
Sad, OP. I was mostly on your side before in the other thread, but not now. To keep bringing this up again and again is purely childish.
 
Okay. I get the whole observation thing, however, given the very real possiblity of harm coming to an innocent life that is in your hands, could you not do this another way? I sometimes have my dragons together to see how they interact, but I only do this within certain parameters. I have them in an open area where none of them feel trapped. I NEVER leave them unsupervised, so action can be taken if there is any problem. I watch closely for any and all signs of stress and act immdeiately if it is present. When you cohab, you are not a constant observer and things can take a downturn within seconds. I just feel that you can find a compromise that allows you to enjoy your pets, but also provide a safe enviroment for them. Owning a pet is not solely for your enjoyment. You take on the responsibility for an innocent and helpless life that deserves to be treated with care and respect. This is all just my opinion and please take it not as an attack, but as a genuine concern for the animals in your care.
 
Bethany why is it your job to change any bodies opinion you're nobody just a arrogant pet owner and a hate monger. I never came here asking for advice on whether or not to cohab. No where did I ever say hey what do yall think should I put my snakes together. Can bad things not happen with multiple dogs at a dog park what about a child in the back yard with the family pet can bad things not happen there but yet nobody protest these things but on this yall have to have the final say sorry I think your wrong. Do you not think that the same things you say about snakes have not been said about all domesticated animals at one time or another. So grab your mouse click unsubscribe and go about your way you don't have to like it but its the simple truth you have no say in this and we have a right to our opinions and decisions and this forum gives us a place to talk about issues that affect us. Now if someone wants to start a thread on how to be the biggest bully on the school yard bethany I'm sure you will have plenty to contribute if they want to start a thread on being condescending well alicat that's right up your well alley. But this is not we all know your opinion and we just don't care
 
I have cohabbed in the past with success and I know I explained how I did along time ago now and I guess I will do it again. The two snakes that I cohabbed at the time were both females and proven by laying eggs. A little more proof then popping and probing.

These girls were in a 100 gal display tank with a warm "side" in the middle and cool at either end of the tank that way they had their own warm and cool sides with out having to pass by each other. I had hides, vines, and water dishes galore, again so they didn't have to interact if they didn't want to. They never ever ate in the tank and they were always on the same feeding schedule. I am a work at home mom so I am always home to watch my snakes. I know each and everyone one of my snakes like the back of my hand. So I know when they are the slightest irritated.

My findings? When provided with a large enough area mimicking the outside world the best you can, I never found them in the same hides. I never found them slithering over each other. They knew that they other one existed because they would occasionally see the other go by. So therefore this tells me that they don't need or want each other if they don't have to.

Now my concern with your snakes age and sex. Here is a link to one of my threads. These snakes were only a year old, under a 100 grams. I almost lost mom and it did end up very bad for the babies. http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=113024&highlight=sick+stomach

Please take my points as a way to learn. If you are going to do it then learn from others mistakes and at least look for ways to do it safer.
 
big chris said:
Bethany why is it your job to change any bodies opinion you're nobody just a arrogant pet owner and a hate monger. I never came here asking for advice on whether or not to cohab. No where did I ever say hey what do yall think should I put my snakes together. Can bad things not happen with multiple dogs at a dog park what about a child in the back yard with the family pet can bad things not happen there but yet nobody protest these things but on this yall have to have the final say sorry I think your wrong. Do you not think that the same things you say about snakes have not been said about all domesticated animals at one time or another. So grab your mouse click unsubscribe and go about your way you don't have to like it but its the simple truth you have no say in this and we have a right to our opinions and decisions and this forum gives us a place to talk about issues that affect us. Now if someone wants to start a thread on how to be the biggest bully on the school yard bethany I'm sure you will have plenty to contribute if they want to start a thread on being condescending well alicat that's right up your well alley. But this is not we all know your opinion and we just don't care
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Bottom line, you don't care about them at all.
Say whatever you want, but your actions prove what I say.

I have no say in how you keep your animals, you are right.
But you won't come here and be unchallenged when you are doing something that is cruel.

I have been here everyday since 2005, and I will be here long after your cohabbing azz is long gone, I can promise you that!
 
cmalchow said:
I have cohabbed in the past with success and I know I explained how I did along time ago now and I guess I will do it again. The two snakes that I cohabbed at the time were both females and proven by laying eggs. A little more proof then popping and probing.

These girls were in a 100 gal display tank with a warm "side" in the middle and cool at either end of the tank that way they had their own warm and cool sides with out having to pass by each other. I had hides, vines, and water dishes galore, again so they didn't have to interact if they didn't want to. They never ever ate in the tank and they were always on the same feeding schedule. I am a work at home mom so I am always home to watch my snakes. I know each and everyone one of my snakes like the back of my hand. So I know when they are the slightest irritated.

My findings? When provided with a large enough area mimicking the outside world the best you can, I never found them in the same hides. I never found them slithering over each other. They knew that they other one existed because they would occasionally see the other go by. So therefore this tells me that they don't need or want each other if they don't have to.

Now my concern with your snakes age and sex. Here is a link to one of my threads. These snakes were only a year old, under a 100 grams. I almost lost mom and it did end up very bad for the babies. http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=113024&highlight=sick+stomach

Please take my points as a way to learn. If you are going to do it then learn from others mistakes and at least look for ways to do it safer.
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Christen, it is admirable that you are still trying to help him.
But you can't make someone care when they just don't.
 
big chris said:
Under no circumstances should cohabbing be done out of financial necessity, if you can't afford to run two tanks then you don't need two snakes.
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This begs the question...

What other reason is there for cohabbing? You've yet to clarify a position on this.

I'm taking "behavioral observation" out of the equation as none of the species you keep would stay in that close proximity in the wild. You took out financial/space considerations. What's left???
 
ScottyK said:
This begs the question...

What other reason is there for cohabbing? You've yet to clarify a position on this.

I'm taking "behavioral observation" out of the equation as none of the species you keep would stay in that close proximity in the wild. You took out financial/space considerations. What's left???
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Well, the answer to that is obviously "I like to see them together." I'ma go house my hatchling corns and my cats together, 'cause I'd like to see 'em together.
 
ScottyK said:
This begs the question...

What other reason is there for cohabbing? You've yet to clarify a position on this.

I'm taking "behavioral observation" out of the equation as none of the species you keep would stay in that close proximity in the wild. You took out financial/space considerations. What's left???
Click to expand...

Hi Scotty :)
I would love to see him answer this one, but I am pretty sure he won't.
A good friend of mine would say "you can't save em all", and she is right.

At this point it is pretty clear that no matter what is said, or how many say it, it will not matter one bit to big chris, because big chris just does not care.
Nothing will change his mind.
He wants to be told that co habbing is just hunky dory, and we know that it isn't.
So he will do just exactly as he wants, and we can't stop him.
But I won't pat him on the back and say "atta boy"!

At this point, putting him in ignore would be a really good thing.
But a few of us should keep him in sight so that his opinions don't influence the noobies.
 
I want starsevol warned and placed on probation just like I was for abusive profanity her changing 2 letters in a word does not make it any less profane then me using only 2 letters to get my point across to some one
 
big chris said:
I find no other benefit other than the observational aspect of it. And why is that not enough
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Some people like the observational aspects of keeping 5 parakeets in a single standard sized bird cage. Doesn't mean it's right for the birds. Some people like the observational aspects of having 50 cats in a house. Doesn't mean it's right for the cats.

Housing hognoses together, when they are known for eating other snakes, is just plain foolish.

Housing the three corns together... what if one of them produces feces that are abnormal? How will you tell which one? What if one of them gets an URI? They'll pass it quickly to the other two. What if one regurges late in the digestion process when there's no longer a visible lump? How will you tell which animal did it?
 
big chris said:
I want starsevol warned and placed on probation just like I was for abusive profanity her changing 2 letters in a word does not make it any less profane then me using only 2 letters to get my point across to some one
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If using the words "co habbing azz" is an infractionable offense, I would prefer Nanci doing the honors. I am tired of getting all my infractions from Susan. :)
 
Shiari said:
Well, the answer to that is obviously "I like to see them together." I'ma go house my hatchling corns and my cats together, 'cause I'd like to see 'em together.
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LOL- I should have said "good" reason. ;)

Your answer is what most of these boil down to, with the notable exception of some European keepers who cohab in super large, naturalistic setups.
 
You know I tried to appease you they way you stated you wanted. I told you my co-habbing story. You have yet to tell us how big your enclosure it or the sex of your snakes or how you are practicing safe co-habbing. He he So therefore your opinion on how to co-hab safety hold no merit in my book.

I find no other benefit other than the observational aspect of it. And why is that not enough
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Because it is not!! Same as feeding live. I do it because I like the thrill of the kill never mind the risk to my snakes. Give me good reason why you feed live (just an example) and I will get off your back. Even if you just tell me because I feel it holds more nutritional value than frozen. (again just an example)

Throw us some sort of bone other than childish "because I can" attitude.
 
starsevol said:
Hi Scotty :)
I would love to see him answer this one, but I am pretty sure he won't.
A good friend of mine would say "you can't save em all", and she is right.

But a few of us should keep him in sight so that his opinions don't influence the noobies.
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Beth- Agreed for the most part. One of the reasons I also respond to these topics is for the benefit of new keepers who may search the threads in the future...
 
@scotty I believe I sent new keepers on the right path when I sent them toward snickersnakes in my opening post I made this link for those of us that have decided to cohab and need community help with our endeavors. As far as your infraction I to would prefer it come from nanci since she issued mine for the 2 letters I posted.

My enclosure for the corns is about 64 inches long 27 inches wide and 49 inches tall it is a matching piece to the boa tank they make a entertainment center and the hognose enclosure is the middle piece. The beardeies are in a coffee table enclosure that is a octagon with 19 inch sides and it is right at 20 inches tall
 
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