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Lava corn
- Thread starter carol
- Start date
ecreipeoj
Striped Topaz SK SG Free
This combo was meant to be. I have two pair of Het Lava Bloods and Mike P has a pair. They are poss het Anery A, so we may see some Avalanche Corns soon too. :sidestep:carol said:
I know a good thing when I see it. Ice Bloods or Avalanche Corns. That will be a wicked thread! :noevil:
Carol, Your snakes and planned breedings are awesome!
carol
Down with the sickness
Sorry Serp for my mistake!
Ya, Magma, Avalanche, "Diamond" ! The only way people will be able to keep up is to get an updated genetics book every 3 months!
I really don't mean to be a pain in the naming threads, but I think a lot of people are failing to look up ahead of things and see the oncoming train wreck. When I try to understand morphs and genetics of non-corn species, it is very frustrating when there is no common thread or "key" in the names. It makes things much more difficult and that is coming from someone who enjoys genetics and biology. We have already learned that originally, jumping to the name "Bloodred", ended up being a big mistake and is still causing problems. Although I still stand that it causes less problems than changing the name all together. With that lessson learned, why are we continuing to make the same mistakes. :shrugs:
Corn genetics are overwhelming enough! Now we are going to have add a new name to our list on a monthly bases. Maybe we should start a poll on which morph will be the next one that is in dire need of a name change. I guess we will find out in a month or so.
Ya, Magma, Avalanche, "Diamond" ! The only way people will be able to keep up is to get an updated genetics book every 3 months!
I really don't mean to be a pain in the naming threads, but I think a lot of people are failing to look up ahead of things and see the oncoming train wreck. When I try to understand morphs and genetics of non-corn species, it is very frustrating when there is no common thread or "key" in the names. It makes things much more difficult and that is coming from someone who enjoys genetics and biology. We have already learned that originally, jumping to the name "Bloodred", ended up being a big mistake and is still causing problems. Although I still stand that it causes less problems than changing the name all together. With that lessson learned, why are we continuing to make the same mistakes. :shrugs:
Corn genetics are overwhelming enough! Now we are going to have add a new name to our list on a monthly bases. Maybe we should start a poll on which morph will be the next one that is in dire need of a name change. I guess we will find out in a month or so.
Last edited:
ecreipeoj
Striped Topaz SK SG Free
Serp is innocent again. I am behind the name “Diamond” Corn. I think people are taking suggested names and feeling that they are trying to be coined and forced upon people. To me it is a fun game, that adds to our hobby and a way to test the water. “Magma” Corns do not exist yet except in my head, but neither does Lava Bloods.
A Diamond Corn does exist. It is a Lava Charcoal so now you know what it is. If the common name of Diamond Corns catches on, in a couple of years it will translate in your head immediately to Lava Charcoal, just like a Snow Corn does. Ice Charcoal, and Ice Diamond Corns are also possibilities. (Ice = Lava, Diamond = Charcoal, Cold = Hot, (Antonyms). One of these or another will become time tested, or Lava Charcoals it will be, but that will be a Common name and Genetic name all rolled up in the same package.
There are always two sides to just about everything in life. Some people are on the extremes of both sides, but the majority of people are somewhere in between. When I look back on the evolution of our hobby, we have always used Trade names and Genetic names.
There are not that many genetic names for people to learn. I don’t see why people think a new person interested in our hobby is going to be more or less confused by trade names verse genetic names. They will either want to learn about it or not. The Trade names will be learned right along with the genetic names or they won’t bother. If you search the web and find just about any Corn Snake listing, such as a Ghost Corn, (Trade Name), there will be a description of its appearance and the genetic make up of a Ghost Corn right there in front of you. The same is true in books and on most price list.
A common argument is there will be more explaining to do at trade shows or to new customers. BULL! I have done more trade shows than I can possibly remember and sold a few snakes to new people in the hobby. When I tell them that the Corn Snake they are looking at is a Hypomelanistic Anerythristic A Corn Snakes, they look at you like you are speaking Latin, and are immediately intimidated or think I am a big show off. When I tell them the Corn Snake is a Ghost Corn, we are talking on a level they can understand and the mood of the situation is immediately a positive one. From that starting point, I can add how they became to be known as a Ghost Corn and the genetics behind them, if they seem interested or not. After they buy their Ghost Corn, they will tell people they have a wonderful new Corn Snake that is called a Ghost Corn. They will not remember at all that it is a Hypomelanistic Anerythristic A Corns Snake, unless I write it down for them. If they care to learn more about the genetics behind their Ghost Corn, the information is available everywhere. All they have to do is contact me, and I will introduce them to the Corn World if they want to be.
I can talk to people who have been in this hobby about snakes easier if I only used the Latin Names and genetic names for them, but I have to be speaking to someone with about the same understanding of the language as I do, or I have to step back a step or two. When I tell someone that the snake we are looking at is a campbelli or nelsoni, I know they immediately know everything there is to know about this snake. They have acquired the knowledge about the different subspecies of Milk Snakes and they know the variations in appearance and the origins of the subspecies we are talking about. I can not tell a new person that we are looking at a Lampropeltis triangulum campbelli. I tell them they are a Pueblan Milk Snake, which is the common name for them.
This is about the same thing as our trade names for our Corn Snakes. All Snakes have a Common Name and a scientific name. Trade names are just Common Names for the snakes that we have created, by combining certain genetic traits together. I do not think this is a new concept or something that will baffle the masses. Practically, every product that is sold has a Common/Trade name and scientific name or recipe. In the pet industry the same thing is true. Tropical Fish are a good example. They probably out number our Corns 100 to 1 and there is not any mass confusion or a break down of the Tropical Fish society on the horizon.
I like Trade Names and will always use them along with the genetic names. Some genetic names are used as Trade Names because there is nothing better. An Amel Corn is a Trade name that happens to be a genetic name too. I actually prefer Albino Corn myself, but I soon learned this was not acceptable here on this forum.
I will always use both Trade Names and genetic names. Our Hobby, will always used both, the scientific community will always use both, and now that I have written this I need a couple of Advil (Ibuprofen)
A Diamond Corn does exist. It is a Lava Charcoal so now you know what it is. If the common name of Diamond Corns catches on, in a couple of years it will translate in your head immediately to Lava Charcoal, just like a Snow Corn does. Ice Charcoal, and Ice Diamond Corns are also possibilities. (Ice = Lava, Diamond = Charcoal, Cold = Hot, (Antonyms). One of these or another will become time tested, or Lava Charcoals it will be, but that will be a Common name and Genetic name all rolled up in the same package.
There are always two sides to just about everything in life. Some people are on the extremes of both sides, but the majority of people are somewhere in between. When I look back on the evolution of our hobby, we have always used Trade names and Genetic names.
There are not that many genetic names for people to learn. I don’t see why people think a new person interested in our hobby is going to be more or less confused by trade names verse genetic names. They will either want to learn about it or not. The Trade names will be learned right along with the genetic names or they won’t bother. If you search the web and find just about any Corn Snake listing, such as a Ghost Corn, (Trade Name), there will be a description of its appearance and the genetic make up of a Ghost Corn right there in front of you. The same is true in books and on most price list.
A common argument is there will be more explaining to do at trade shows or to new customers. BULL! I have done more trade shows than I can possibly remember and sold a few snakes to new people in the hobby. When I tell them that the Corn Snake they are looking at is a Hypomelanistic Anerythristic A Corn Snakes, they look at you like you are speaking Latin, and are immediately intimidated or think I am a big show off. When I tell them the Corn Snake is a Ghost Corn, we are talking on a level they can understand and the mood of the situation is immediately a positive one. From that starting point, I can add how they became to be known as a Ghost Corn and the genetics behind them, if they seem interested or not. After they buy their Ghost Corn, they will tell people they have a wonderful new Corn Snake that is called a Ghost Corn. They will not remember at all that it is a Hypomelanistic Anerythristic A Corns Snake, unless I write it down for them. If they care to learn more about the genetics behind their Ghost Corn, the information is available everywhere. All they have to do is contact me, and I will introduce them to the Corn World if they want to be.
I can talk to people who have been in this hobby about snakes easier if I only used the Latin Names and genetic names for them, but I have to be speaking to someone with about the same understanding of the language as I do, or I have to step back a step or two. When I tell someone that the snake we are looking at is a campbelli or nelsoni, I know they immediately know everything there is to know about this snake. They have acquired the knowledge about the different subspecies of Milk Snakes and they know the variations in appearance and the origins of the subspecies we are talking about. I can not tell a new person that we are looking at a Lampropeltis triangulum campbelli. I tell them they are a Pueblan Milk Snake, which is the common name for them.
This is about the same thing as our trade names for our Corn Snakes. All Snakes have a Common Name and a scientific name. Trade names are just Common Names for the snakes that we have created, by combining certain genetic traits together. I do not think this is a new concept or something that will baffle the masses. Practically, every product that is sold has a Common/Trade name and scientific name or recipe. In the pet industry the same thing is true. Tropical Fish are a good example. They probably out number our Corns 100 to 1 and there is not any mass confusion or a break down of the Tropical Fish society on the horizon.
I like Trade Names and will always use them along with the genetic names. Some genetic names are used as Trade Names because there is nothing better. An Amel Corn is a Trade name that happens to be a genetic name too. I actually prefer Albino Corn myself, but I soon learned this was not acceptable here on this forum.
I will always use both Trade Names and genetic names. Our Hobby, will always used both, the scientific community will always use both, and now that I have written this I need a couple of Advil (Ibuprofen)
Attachments
Susan
Go Ahead, Make My Day!
The "Name Game" is a very interesting and fun aspect of this hobby, especially now that there are so many new morphs and combos in the making. The only problem I'm encountering is being able to link a new name with it's genetic make-up. It may get mentioned once or twice, but trying to read through a vast multitude of posts to locate it is turning into a royal pain! I work full-time, have a family to take care of, alot of my "spare" time is used up on my cornsnake hobby, and whatever time is left over (and when the hubby isn't on-line) is usually spent here. If I spend an hour researching a new morph name, I have no more time until the next day or two or three to read the rest of the forum. I usually end up picking and choosing threads as it is.
Therefore, I am making a formal request. PLEASE, for at least awhile, when talking about a new morph/name, include the genetics behind it. A perfect example is in this thread. I have NEVER heard the term "magma" used until now. Luckily, I was able to easily determine that it is a lava bloodred (diffuse lava? - isn't this FUN!). But guaranteed, I will forget it (actually had to scroll up to refresh my memory), so when one actually hatches out, I'll be a mushroom again!
Therefore, I am making a formal request. PLEASE, for at least awhile, when talking about a new morph/name, include the genetics behind it. A perfect example is in this thread. I have NEVER heard the term "magma" used until now. Luckily, I was able to easily determine that it is a lava bloodred (diffuse lava? - isn't this FUN!). But guaranteed, I will forget it (actually had to scroll up to refresh my memory), so when one actually hatches out, I'll be a mushroom again!
Quigs
"Got R Did"
This is precisely why we are playing the name game, to avoid more confusion in the furture! The REAL trainwreck IS foreseen!carol said:
Bloodred is a perfectly fitting and well accepted name for those animals that exhibit bloodred colors! Little did they know until recently that the trait was also a pattern not just the color! That is precisely the reason we are in this mess now!carol said:
Quigs
"Got R Did"
I really don't mean to be rude here, but you are not the only one that has a full time job and/or school, a family and animals to take care of! Sorry I just can't condone an excuse such as this. :shrugs: You have priorities, as do we all, and that's fine but please don't blame that on the people that are trying to make things easier and less confusing in the long run.Susan said:
Not surprising, many have never heard of this name. The morph doesn't exist yet, but is definately on the nearby horizon!Susan said:
Susan
Go Ahead, Make My Day!
Quigs said:
Jesh Quigs! All I asked for is that when someone uses a new name if they would also, for a short time, give a genetic definition using terms that are more familiar. I thought that would help make things easier and less confusing in the long run. I'm sorry if anyone took offense.
carol
Down with the sickness
Well then, I publicly appologize to Serp for jumping the gun on that one.
Everyone has thier own right to act independantly and call thier corns whatever the heck they want. I really think it is responisible of you to use the trade names along with the genetic names. But I can see where I (a person with already existing knowlede of corn genetics and a love for corns), much like Susan, don't even know how I will keep up with everyones latest whimsey of a name.
I just think having a common key would make things easier. I can just see a table full of snows, avalanches, blizzards, ices, diamonds and glaciers not to mention that there will just have to be another name for blizzard blood. Heck to beginners they are all just a bunch of white snakes with different price tags, so it doesn't really matter WHAT we call them.
But keeping the scientific names in there where ever possible makes it easier for the somewhat knowledgeable person to stay current and all of us to stay more universal.
I feel like pretty soon we will need an annually updated Morph Thesaurus.
ecreipeoj said:
Everyone has thier own right to act independantly and call thier corns whatever the heck they want. I really think it is responisible of you to use the trade names along with the genetic names. But I can see where I (a person with already existing knowlede of corn genetics and a love for corns), much like Susan, don't even know how I will keep up with everyones latest whimsey of a name.
I just think having a common key would make things easier. I can just see a table full of snows, avalanches, blizzards, ices, diamonds and glaciers not to mention that there will just have to be another name for blizzard blood. Heck to beginners they are all just a bunch of white snakes with different price tags, so it doesn't really matter WHAT we call them.
But keeping the scientific names in there where ever possible makes it easier for the somewhat knowledgeable person to stay current and all of us to stay more universal.
I feel like pretty soon we will need an annually updated Morph Thesaurus.
carol
Down with the sickness
No one is blaming anyone, it is just some of us disagree on WHAT makes things easier.
One side claims having 100+ names out there makes things easier and another side claims that calling the snake by what it is genetically, using the the dozen or so recessive morphs out there is easier.
I was talking about using "Bloodred" to describe a pattern trait as a mistake. I do think it was a big mistake to use that name, but I also believe it is too established be worth changing.
ecreipeoj
Striped Topaz SK SG Free
I think from now on that I will always put the genetic name after any name that is not establish yet the first time I use it in a response, just like you should the first time you use an abbreviation, but we usually don‘t.
This forum is a portal for communication between people with a common interest which in this case is Corn Snakes. There are first time visitors, beginners, breeders, genetics geeks and many other levels of interests that we could come up with. I know at times, I forget the variety of people who may be reading my post. This forums purpose is different to many people, but to me it is a place to discuss new ideas, theories and a place to present commonly known facts to everybody.
I think Trade Names and Genetic Names both have a place and an important role to play in our hobby. I personally think that beginners are more receptive to Trade Names at first than the Genetic Names. An extremely new person to the hobby can not pronounce and has never heard of anerythristic. I have to repeat it to them 10 times and they still forget. Trade names are easier to put on the lids of containers at Trade Shows. The Genetic Names and/or abbreviations would look like a foreign language to most people at a trade show. If the person has a basic understanding of the mutant genes in Corns, they would say something like “That Blizzard is and Amel and Anery B right” Yes “What is an Ice Corn” I would tell them and they would understand. The reverse would happen if I had Lava Anery A on the lid. “What do you call that one?” What does Lava mean?.
Sure there are only 12 mutant genes in Corns, but if there are 100 Trade names to learn then there are 100 combinations of genes to learn as well. Trade names have there place. I know what a Caramel Lav is genetically, but I still do not know what one looks like, so I really do not know what they are. I do not want to have to call an Opal an Amelanistic Lavender or Amel Lav. The abbreviations are easy enough, but like Susan’s point, there are many people who will not know what that means any more than an Amelanistic Lavender, but they will have an idea what an Opal Corn is. I guess this is a case in point that a name should produce an idea of what they may look like, or stick with the genetic listing of genes involved.
Lava Bloods or Magma Corns, either one will work for me. They will be orange or red, so there shouldn’t be any objections to them being called Bloods. There is enough objection to using the name of Blood with any morph that is not red, that I think all morphs that are not red, but also Homo for Blood, will get a Trade Name attached to them. I think this will be a good thing, but the genetic names will have to be made available as well, like “Granite” Corns, (anerythristic/Bloodred) or "Avalanche" Corns (Amelanistic/anerythristic/Bloodred) I actually believe this is being done already on a fairly consistent basis in publications and on web sites.
I think Carol’s project of a Lava X Blood is an excellent one. I am perhaps a little bias, but so far, all of the combos with Lava (Ice (Lava/anery) “Ice Lav” (Lava/Lavender) “Diamond” (lava/anery b) in my opinion are better than combos with the Standard Hypo gene. They are at least significantly different and more extreme.
This forum is a portal for communication between people with a common interest which in this case is Corn Snakes. There are first time visitors, beginners, breeders, genetics geeks and many other levels of interests that we could come up with. I know at times, I forget the variety of people who may be reading my post. This forums purpose is different to many people, but to me it is a place to discuss new ideas, theories and a place to present commonly known facts to everybody.
I think Trade Names and Genetic Names both have a place and an important role to play in our hobby. I personally think that beginners are more receptive to Trade Names at first than the Genetic Names. An extremely new person to the hobby can not pronounce and has never heard of anerythristic. I have to repeat it to them 10 times and they still forget. Trade names are easier to put on the lids of containers at Trade Shows. The Genetic Names and/or abbreviations would look like a foreign language to most people at a trade show. If the person has a basic understanding of the mutant genes in Corns, they would say something like “That Blizzard is and Amel and Anery B right” Yes “What is an Ice Corn” I would tell them and they would understand. The reverse would happen if I had Lava Anery A on the lid. “What do you call that one?” What does Lava mean?.
Sure there are only 12 mutant genes in Corns, but if there are 100 Trade names to learn then there are 100 combinations of genes to learn as well. Trade names have there place. I know what a Caramel Lav is genetically, but I still do not know what one looks like, so I really do not know what they are. I do not want to have to call an Opal an Amelanistic Lavender or Amel Lav. The abbreviations are easy enough, but like Susan’s point, there are many people who will not know what that means any more than an Amelanistic Lavender, but they will have an idea what an Opal Corn is. I guess this is a case in point that a name should produce an idea of what they may look like, or stick with the genetic listing of genes involved.
Lava Bloods or Magma Corns, either one will work for me. They will be orange or red, so there shouldn’t be any objections to them being called Bloods. There is enough objection to using the name of Blood with any morph that is not red, that I think all morphs that are not red, but also Homo for Blood, will get a Trade Name attached to them. I think this will be a good thing, but the genetic names will have to be made available as well, like “Granite” Corns, (anerythristic/Bloodred) or "Avalanche" Corns (Amelanistic/anerythristic/Bloodred) I actually believe this is being done already on a fairly consistent basis in publications and on web sites.
I think Carol’s project of a Lava X Blood is an excellent one. I am perhaps a little bias, but so far, all of the combos with Lava (Ice (Lava/anery) “Ice Lav” (Lava/Lavender) “Diamond” (lava/anery b) in my opinion are better than combos with the Standard Hypo gene. They are at least significantly different and more extreme.
