Do Corn Snakes Love?

Originally Posted by cmjetton

My corn Slinky is a wise old sage with several million years of evolution that has it made living day to day eating, sleeping and swimming. Does not matter if she can love because I have enough love for the both of us. Most days after dealing with emotional human doings all day hanging with her is the highlight of my day.

The latter is indeed very true, no matter if and what they feel themselves

Dogs and cats absolutely feel fear and happiness. There's a reason why people have to deal with fear-aggression in some animals, after all. There's a reason why other animals get so excited when they see certain people. If animals weren't capable of emotions (and how incredibly ego-centric our species is to feel that way) then they wouldn't develop neuroses.

The key difference is that animals don't dwell on their emotions the way that people do.

But yes, fear, happiness, anger, confusion, boredom... We evolved from other animals and those emotions tagged along.

Do Corn Snakes Love? Answer is simple. NO

If animals weren't capable of emotions (and how incredibly ego-centric our species is to feel that way) then they wouldn't develop neuroses.

The key difference is that animals don't dwell on their emotions the way that people do.

This is a brilliant way of putting it. I live with three dogs and I understand that each has a different intelligence level-- but they all have a wide range of emotions. I don't think that researchers and psychologists would set up entire facilities to study the intelligence and the emotional intelligence of dogs if there wasn't something intriguing there. They experience jealousy, possessiveness, and yes, they do develop similar neuroses as people do-- in fact, they prescribe some of the same drugs to dogs as they do to people. One of my dogs is on a mild Xanax for anxiety problems. There are also dogs that stand by their owners side even after the owner has passed away-- what about the famous Akita that waited for its owner to come off the train until it died?

I've heard it mentioned that animals who mate for life will find another mate if theirs dies and that therefore they do not love. But human beings do the same thing. It is in our nature to love, even if the object of our love dies... I've heard that geese mate for life, and there was a pair by my grandma's house-- one died, and the other mourned for months. It just sat on the roof day in and day out calling for its mate. How about elephants and their graveyards where they go to mourn their dead?

So reptiles may not love-- and who can really define for sure what love is anyway-- but there are certainly numerous examples of animals who exhibit the traits of what I would consider to be love or deep affection. I don't think we people are as special as we think we are

I think this thread got off topic....

Reptiles and mammals (such as a dog and humans) are totally different from each other. To say that mammals don't feel emotion...I think that is a very broad statement.

Snakes don't require, care, or want companionship for that reason alone I say no.

Originally Posted by Shiari

Dogs and cats absolutely feel fear and happiness. There's a reason why people have to deal with fear-aggression in some animals, after all. There's a reason why other animals get so excited when they see certain people. If animals weren't capable of emotions (and how incredibly ego-centric our species is to feel that way) then they wouldn't develop neuroses.

The key difference is that animals don't dwell on their emotions the way that people do.

But yes, fear, happiness, anger, confusion, boredom... We evolved from other animals and those emotions tagged along.

I think it depends on what you define as emotions. For me emotions are what you experience consciously when your body has chemical reactions to a situation. I don't know wether dogs 'know' why they are happy when a certain person comes home or if they just react that way because of the Pavlov effect. Perhaps dogs have developed the brain part for emotions a bit, I don't know.

I think animals develop neuroses when they can't act like their instincts tell them to act. So they get stressed by stress hormones, making them act neurotic trying to get rid of the stress (by producing soothing hormones). Still I don't think those neurotic animals really 'feel bored'.

My Alyssum is a perfect example of a dog with emotions. She has fear-aggression issues. She is a normal, (yes) happy, playful spazz around me and a select few individuals. She was a backyard-only dog before I got her. She was used to a walled-in space.

My dog has agoraphobia. She panics when the world is not confined. She is *afraid* that every new human she meets is going to treat her as poorly as her first owner. She is particularly *afraid* of men. She is perfectly aware of why she feels that fear; humans have abused her. They are bad.

Working with animals the way I do as a technician, I have learned to read their expressions and they can sometimes have a fairly complex dance going across their features. Doggy eyebrows are incredibly expressive of fear, uncertainty, anger, boredom/tolerance and happiness. Same with the ears, the nose, the corners of the mouth, and of course their eyes.




This is a dog who is afraid, but hopeful. So far I'd proven myself to be very different from her first owner. She isn't sure she can trust me quite yet, but she knows she trusts me a lot more than the stranger holding the camera.

I say that, because this is the next picture in the series. I squatted to try to get her to stand up.



Very slow. Very uncertain. Still afraid, but still hopeful I won't hurt her.




Staring at my brother.


That is fear. There is no other phrase or word for it. And if they can feel, express, and act on, that emotion, the others are there in varying degrees as well.

Are we next going to say that those humans who are extremely mentally disabled don't feel emotions either, because they aren't "smart enough" to dwell on them, agonise over them, or rejoice in them?

To give my opinion, No. I do not think Corn Snakes are capable of "Love", as we define it.

However, it really shouldn't matter. I have enough love for my corns to make up for it, and from the sounds of it, you do too! And besides, they do obviously show a trust or certain preference for me, and part of that fun is speculating as to why they do that. We like to say they love us, but we know it really comes from a place of trust and routine. TBH, I have a hard time believing they feel much emotion past the basics, I'd like to think that my snakes thoughts sound something like this:

'I can eat this?' 'Can I bite you?' 'You are warm' 'You are fairly nice, I guess.' 'IS IT FOOD TIME?!?!' 'Oooh, vibration!' 'I'm climbing this and I don't care what you think.'
'I'm just gonna sit on your head for a while.' 'I'm goin' swimmin'.' 'Why do you smell bad today?' 'Can I curl up and sleep here?'

I'll put it this way, the most you can get from your snake, is a snake who tolerates you and mildly enjoys your company and warmth contribution at best.
If your snake has a tendency to repeat any actions, or enjoy doing something, activity-wise, do it as often as possible. This will strengthen your bond, I think we all agree that there is a bond there. I just think it's more of a trust/'you're alright' bond than a "Love" one, y'know?

Although, I agree that mammals feel emotions. I volunteer at a shelter, and there is no doubt in my mind that some of those dogs and cats feel utter DESPAIR. And I agree with Shiari, it is very ego-centric of us to assume otherwise.

I also 'apply thoughts' to my snakes all the time, together with my boyfriend, so funny

I believe I have impressed my scent and image onto my snakes. Funny story: One day my snow corn Balthazar shed his skin. I couldn't see him in the tank when I reached in to grab the old skin, turns out he had slithered back into the old skin and got trapped. The scared snake musked a green slime into his tank like a giant sneeze as he writhed in my hand. I tore the shed so he could get out and he zoomed up my arm and tangled himself into my curly hair. For twenty minutes this snake remained in a tight grip in my hair as I sat still and waited for him to decide what to do next. Eventually he slid down around my neck and became his stable self again.

What I have done was condition this snake to my person as I am his terrain. He only lives in his tank and my person. I do not set him down ever. My hair isn't his haven because he knows I'm his person, it is his thicket. I believe that he does have a bond to my person, but that wont stop him from slithering away if I leave the tank open.

My cat, Holly, will not got outside. She is impressed on the entire family. I do not believe she would accept a new owner or family as we are her people. Yet I do believe that she loves us as a kitten loves her mother.

Alyssum is so cute. I'd love to have a scruffy dog like her.