Is it ok to house two snakes together?

Great response Dean, if only they had ears to hear!!!!!

Pat GC

alright, time to reply...for starters...if you want to compare behavior...look at snakes and cats...both are solitary animals. so its a good comparison...cats spend over 16 hours a day sleeping...the only time they bother to wake up is when they want to eat, go to the bathroom, move around, ect. what does a snake do all day? more so for this argument, a corn snake...it sleeps all day, and only moves for the listed reasons. the only reason a cat could be considered one step above a snake is in the fact that it has useable vocal cords and ears, other than that their behavior is the same...so you really have no argument there...what does a cat do that is so much smarter than a snake? i really cant think of a single thing. quite honestly i cant see your points.


tell me this...it has been noted by almost anyone who pays attention to their snakes and has owned two or more that each snake shows its own individual personality...if as you say "You don't find much better examples of creatures of pure instinct than snakes" is true, then how is this possible? instinct stays the same for most animals, therefor if they are purely instinct, then they should all act the same. individual personalities, or variations in behavior patterns, since you want to use the big terms lol (not being a smarta--) show a thought process higher than just instinct. if you want an example of pure instinct look at ants. their whole life is under control of instinct from birth to death. personaly to me, the demonstration of a personalitly indicates thought, thought indicates a slight, not vast, but slight understanding of the world around the animal. i understand that science has shown a lacking in some areas of the brain in comparison to mamals. however a snakes brain is much like that of a bird. true, some birds are quite unintelligent, but then there are others that are very smart and can show a deep thought process.

and no, i havent owned many snakes, nor dogs nor cats. and no, i dont have a documented education in these fields...but that dosent mean that i am wrong not does it mean that i am right. my conclutions are drawn from my own personal observations of animals and how they interact with the world around them, humans included. to me it would seem to make more logic that if you want to understand an animal, you shouldnt look into its brain to see what it has and dosent have, you should watch it to see how it acts...actions show alot more to me than a cat scan of a brain. you can take scans from two different people and compare them and the brains will be almost identical, yet each person can be totaly different. and to be quite honest i think many humans act more on instinct then people belive...watching the social interactions between people, and comparing them to that of apes is quite a stunny comparison, there are more things in common than different. dont think just because you can read and write and do math problems that you are the most powerful thing on the planet. quite honestly its our intelligence that will be our downfall.

read this

Marc: yes, I agree that we probably do have less instinct, but I think that's because of our more evolved self. I think we've sort of stamped out some instincts with more logical reason

Marc: ..which ironically is our downfall

Carol: very true

Carol: i think we are overconfident in our brains

Carol: "dumber" beings are more content with life, kill themselves less often, don't have stress unless they are escaping being eaten, aren't trying to destroy the world, and haven't evolved ways to destroy each other

Carol: i think they are leagues ahead of us

Carol: they don't try to figure out life after death...they live for the now

Carol: they don't worry about careers and money, so therefore there little, if ANY corruption

Carol: they are MUCH better parents, for their ONLY goal is to raise their children (depending on the species)

Marc: and so ignorance is bliss

Carol: indeed

Marc: I definitely wish I was dumb.. to be honest

Carol: this is true with those who are mentally retarded

Marc: they live in heaven

Carol: everyone feels so bad for the "retarded" kid....but the "retarded" kid feels absolutely fine

Carol: in a manner

Carol: it's like that with most mental diseases and such....if the person with the disease doesn't know they have it, they are perfectly fine....it's only when they know something is wrong that they distress

Carol: to themselves, they are normal

Marc: the only way ignorant people (or retarded) can hurt is that they don't understand and the more intellegent people are left with the more complicated issues of life

Marc: yep

Carol: yea

Carol: the curse of intelligence

Carol: you know something i am beginning to wonder?

Marc: agreed. what?

Carol: hang on....i'm trying to bring my thoughts into something coherant..one sec

Carol: well...it's like, we speak of how those who are less intelligent are "ignorant" (ignorance is bliss)...and you mentioned how those with intelligence are left with the "more complicated issues in life"

Marc: lol I know what you mean

Carol: it seems to me like the intelligent are the ones making the problems for themselves

Carol: maybe the intelligent are the truly ignorant

Marc: a true paradox, but I see what you mean.

Carol: i'm glad...cuz i wasn't sure how else to explain that

Carol: lol

Marc: it's because we have the capacity to understand complex issues that require more than just physical work to solve

Carol: but maybe there are no complex issues, marc

Carol: maybe we are making them for ourselves

Marc: exactly

Marc: evolution is at it again!

Carol: lol

Marc: a true life tragedy

Carol: the human race is a tragedy

Carol: we have no end but destruction....whether destruction by the destroyers.....or destruction by destroying the destroyers who make up most of our species

Marc: it's ironic cause we're very intelligent, yet we don't see the grand point of things.. but that's the whole question, isn't it?

Marc: yep

Carol: indeed

Marc: that's what we strive to solve...yet with knowledge comes suffering. A true fact.

Carol: maybe our problem is we are always trying to FIND a grand point of things....cuz we can't quite wrap our heads around the idea that maybe there IS no point...

Marc: hm. but that's the whole question that may remained unsolved... so what's the point of trying?

Carol: to make our own point...

Carol: holy crap

Carol: marc, i think that might be the "meaning of life"....to make it have a meaning!



♦ In other words, folks...what I'm saying is that perhaps one of humanity's many problems is that we try to find a point in everything. Perhaps the meaning of our lives (besides procreation) is to make our lives have a point, when they would otherwise have none. ♦

and yes, i know you may be thinking that conversation is somewhat contridictive of what im saying, but really is not...some intelligence is good, but when you begin to overthink the world and inflate your ego, thats when things get bad...case and point - our world today.


animals have been on this plant and kept it running without a hitch for millions of years, we have cause more havoc and destruction in the past 500 years than has been caused in the past 500 million...

And suddenly we're having an exostential conversation about the meaning of life.

THIS TOPIC IS TOO COMPLIACTED.

Snakes: snakes don't like other snakes, unless they're horny rawr.

In all this time no one has ever been able to present a reason why the snakes SHOULD be housed together other than our own desire to force anthropomorphic "lonely" feelings on them, do it cause space/money needs to be saved or because they looked cool.

THATS IT END OF STORY. NO BIGGER MEANING ABOUT LIFE TO BE FOUND HERE

lulz I amuse myself sometimes.

lol, you amuse me as well...*sigh* yea...i guess just let this die...

Originally Posted by Annihilation-

alright, time to reply...for starters...if you want to compare behavior...look at snakes and cats...both are solitary animals. so its a good comparison...cats spend over 16 hours a day sleeping...the only time they bother to wake up is when they want to eat, go to the bathroom, move around, ect. what does a snake do all day? more so for this argument, a corn snake...it sleeps all day, and only moves for the listed reasons. the only reason a cat could be considered one step above a snake is in the fact that it has useable vocal cords and ears, other than that their behavior is the same...so you really have no argument there...what does a cat do that is so much smarter than a snake? i really cant think of a single thing. quite honestly i cant see your points.

This is laughable. I have no argument? This is quite an arrogant statement coming from someone who demonstrates zero knowledge of even the framework around which this discussion could take place. Why would you compare snakes and cats? Why is a cat "one step above" a snake? Do you know why cats are smarter than snakes? Because they have MORE COMPLEX BRAINS. They have areas of their brains that don't even exist in snakes. Do you know why humans are smarter than cats? Bingo! If you think that cats' and snakes' behavior are identical except for vocalization and hearing, then you only prove that you don't much about either type of animal.

tell me this...it has been noted by almost anyone who pays attention to their snakes and has owned two or more that each snake shows its own individual personality...if as you say "You don't find much better examples of creatures of pure instinct than snakes" is true, then how is this possible?

Humans like to anthropomorphize (look it up). I've owned hundreds of snakes and I tell you that they do not have individual "personalities". People apply the term to snakes for two reasons: 1) They're ignorant; 2) It's easier than describing what's really going on. Some of my snakes are mellow, others are aggressive. Do you know why? It's because threat assessment is a critical instinct for survival. The ones that don't instictively consider me to be a threat are mellow. If you want to call that personality, go ahead, but it is not.

instinct stays the same for most animals, therefor if they are purely instinct, then they should all act the same.

Ok, I'll go along with this, but you know what? Animals that rely almost entirely on instinct (e.g.; snakes) DO act very similar. Animals with more advanced brains (i.e., higher cognitive function) rely less on instinct alone, and they display greater behavioral differences between individuals.

individual personalities, or variations in behavior patterns, since you want to use the big terms lol (not being a smarta--) show a thought process higher than just instinct. if you want an example of pure instinct look at ants. their whole life is under control of instinct from birth to death. personaly to me, the demonstration of a personalitly indicates thought, thought indicates a slight, not vast, but slight understanding of the world around the animal. i understand that science has shown a lacking in some areas of the brain in comparison to mamals. however a snakes brain is much like that of a bird. true, some birds are quite unintelligent, but then there are others that are very smart and can show a deep thought process.

Birds are not capable of deep thought, unless your definition of deep thought is different from mine. You say that demonstration of personality indicates thought, and I say that this doesn't matter if you're mis-applying the term "personality". You give me some "personality" traits that you think snakes possess, and I'll explain to you why these are nothing more than non-thinking, instinctive response.

and no, i havent owned many snakes, nor dogs nor cats. and no, i dont have a documented education in these fields...but that dosent mean that i am wrong not does it mean that i am right. my conclutions are drawn from my own personal observations of animals and how they interact with the world around them, humans included.

Ok, so you're admitting that you have observed these animals less than I have. So why are you relying on your conclusions and dismissing mine? My "sample size" is much greater than yours. If you spent time with your Uncle Pete's pet chimp, are you going to assume that your conclusions about chimp behavior are as valid as Jane Goodall's?

to me it would seem to make more logic that if you want to understand an animal, you shouldnt look into its brain to see what it has and dosent have, you should watch it to see how it acts...actions show alot more to me than a cat scan of a brain.

I don't know what "making logic" means. How many snake cat-scans do you think I've seen? I've watched a lot more snakes than you have, and I don't need a cat scan to tell me that they are creatures of nearly pure instinct. They're practically bio-robots in my opinion.

you can take scans from two different people and compare them and the brains will be almost identical, yet each person can be totaly different.

Maybe to YOU. But a neurologist might be able to point out differences even in identical twins. Don't let your assumptions about things you know very little about obstruct your ability to think critically about these things.

and to be quite honest i think many humans act more on instinct then people belive...watching the social interactions between people, and comparing them to that of apes is quite a stunny comparison, there are more things in common than different. dont think just because you can read and write and do math problems that you are the most powerful thing on the planet. quite honestly its our intelligence that will be our downfall.

You again demonstrate that you don't really know what you're talking about. Sorry to put it so bluntly. Non-human apes are highly intelligent animals, and they share a relatively recent common ancestor with us. It's not surprising that we are behaviorally similar to them. Apes have evolved high cognitive function, reducing our reliance on instinct.

read this

No offense, but this conversation you posted is the kind of thing I'd expect to hear from two teenagers who are halfway through a bag of weed and a 30-pack. It's the one that comes right after the "what if what I see as blue is red to you?" conversation is played out. It's hardly insightful.

♦ In other words, folks...what I'm saying is that perhaps one of humanity's many problems is that we try to find a point in everything. Perhaps the meaning of our lives (besides procreation) is to make our lives have a point, when they would otherwise have none. ♦

After all this, THAT'S what you're trying to say? What the heck does that psychobabble have to do with a snake's cognitive abilities?

Poor Dean, spent so much time coming up with an intelligent response when all I had to do was talk about horny snakes and talk in caps.

Originally Posted by Corny Noob

Poor Dean, spent so much time coming up with an intelligent response when all I had to do was talk about horny snakes and talk in caps.

You know, Jenn, I was a little mad when I got done with all that and then I read this:

Snakes: snakes don't like other snakes, unless they're horny rawr.

It's so simple, so true, and so succinct.

Ok is everybody ready for the next cohab thread? Or do we get a breather this time?

*sigh* well...i tried to argue it...but really i guess there is no arguing it...i honestly do belive that most animals, not just reptiles are a bit smarter than precived, though others obviously may not. i suppose that is how most things are, no one can see things the same way. i guess since there is no real way to prove anything of this side of the debate then there is no use trying. i suppose its better left that way anyway