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The Cultivars (morphs)/Genetics Issues Discussions about genetics issues and/or the various cultivars for cornsnakes commercially available.

How many holdbacks for ph?
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Old 12-26-2019, 09:02 AM   #1
67temp
How many holdbacks for ph?

I have a female that is a caramel and het for sunkissed and cinder. I'm out crossing her to a male okeetee. So babies for the project should be het caramel 50% ph sunkissed and cinder. How many babies would you hold back for future pairings? Or how would you decide how many to hold back?
 
Old 12-27-2019, 02:19 AM   #2
Shiari
I figure for good odds of having both possible hets be in there somewhere, at least a 3.3 Then you get the fun game of spending 3 years after maturity testing each male to the females to see who has matching hets and if any of them have both.
You'd be better off finding her a shatter to mate with, and then holding back any shatter het caramel offspring if your end goal is caramel shatters.
 
Old 12-27-2019, 07:43 AM   #3
67temp
I guess it would help some to know what I already have related to the project and the end goal.

I have already:
1.0 caramel, sunkissed, diffused Miami het cinder
0.1 caramel sunkissed, het diffused, 50%ph cinder
0.1 caramel Miami het sunkissed, cinder.
0.1 caramel, sunkissed Miami het diffused, 66%ph cinder (produced in house)
1.0 caramel, sunkissed, cinder Miami (produced in house)

I've already produced the caramel shatters and have the means to produce more. The cinder isn't really a concern and can be disregarded. The goal now is to out cross to an extreme Okeetee to get the thicker borders and have something without visual caramel. Below are the things I would like to produce to add to my collection.

- Miami Okeetee
- sunkissed Miami/sunkissed Miami Okeette
- caramel sunkissed Miami Okeetee

The end goal of the outcrossing is for the carmel sunkissed Miami Okeetee. I'm hoping for a simple clean and contrasting snake with bright yellow saddles, thick black borders on a grey background. A look very similar to a Mandarin rat snake but in a corn.

I was originally thinking 2.2 hold backs should be enough since I have enough visuals and known hets to help with test breedings and to refine the desired looks.
 
Old 12-28-2019, 10:43 AM   #4
Shiari
In that case.... get one of Carol's thick bordered miamis so you don't have to spend as long getting back to the gray ground color.
 
Old 12-30-2019, 10:17 AM   #5
67temp
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiari View Post
In that case.... get one of Carol's thick bordered miamis so you don't have to spend as long getting back to the gray ground color.
Hmm that might be a pairing for the 2021 year since I already have one of those but she has a mate for this year.
 
Old 12-30-2019, 11:26 AM   #6
Rich Z
One thing you may want to consider is how good is your luck quotient?

Luck plays a BIG part in the genetics dice rolling.

I used to have to hold back a LOT of project animals, because I found out the hard way that I was one of Murphy's favorite play toys.
 
Old 01-28-2020, 09:39 PM   #7
bushsnake
I believe the line you are working with the cinder gene is whats giving it the miami look. So you want to have het cinders. Any offspring that may look more grey should prove to be het cinder
 
Old 01-29-2020, 07:06 PM   #8
Frank Pinello
Outcrossing with possible hets is madness. Unless you have the time a space for many hold backs, good luck!
I’m always trying to keep my corn collection under or around 40 snakes due to time and space constraints. This seems to be about all I can handle to keep my collection healthy and thriving considering I have a full time job, 3 kids (in their teens now), a wife and a house to take care of.
With all that said, I will only work with 2.2 known hets or take the short cut of purchasing a multi visual mutant for out crossing.
But I wish I could retire now so I can have the time. And when I have the time, I’ll make the space.
 
Old 01-29-2020, 07:14 PM   #9
Rich Z
I can remember MANY instances at shows when someone would look at a multi-homozygous animal I was selling and ask me about the genetics involved. When I would tell them, they very often would walk away and say they would just roll their own rather than pay that higher price for the animals I was selling.

Well good luck with that!

They didn't have a clue about the resources and commitment that was going to take to accomplish. I engaged in many projects that from the time I thought "I wonder what those genes combined would look like" to the "gee, that is not what I expected", might be 12 or more years in the making.

When I retired there were a LOT of projects in various stages of being finished that were just lost. The guy buying them had no interest in continuing any of the projects, unfortunately. I know I had at least two new "hypomelanistic" like genes in the mix that had just shown up that last year I was in the business. Of course I would have wanted to combine every one of the hypomelanistic type genes together to see if I could finally get a transparent snake.
 
Old 01-30-2020, 01:10 AM   #10
Shiari
.... what *would* a hypo dilute lava ultramel look like, I wonder....
 

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