I wanted to get some opinions from cornsnakes.com forum members that I respect. I wanted opinions and thoughts on a subject that is currently affecting the Leopard Gecko community, and that I find appalling.
First off, does anyone know who Ron Tremper is? If not, let me say that he is one of the individuals some consider "God" of Leopard Geckos. I consider Rich "God" of cornsnakes (
). RT is on the other hand no where near as personable or driven
for the species. More and more I learn about RT, I question his motives and think he's simply in it for the money. Now, I find their is absolutely nothing wrong with making money breeding and selling reptiles. However, I do have a problem when someone misinterprets what they are producing and the genetics behind it.
He has already screwed up by claiming a line he originated was a recessive mutation (Giant), and sold high dollar hets as such. Of course it bombed, the genes behind Giant however did prove out Codom. A lot of individuals dumped a lot of money into the het for nothing geckos, and he caught a lot of slack for it, which I believe he deserved.
The newest thing that's come out (as some of you may now) is the APTOR, RAPTOR and ECLIPSE mutations.
APTOR = Albino Patternless Tremper Orange
RAPTOR = Red-Eyed Albino Patternless Tremper Orange
ECLIPSE = Solid / Snake Eyed
Now, Tremper Albino is a proven recessive mutation. "Orange" aka Tangerine is a selectively bred mutation. ECLIPSE (or Red-Eyed if Albino) is unproven in its genetic inheritance. The Patternless in the APTOR/RAPTOR mutations is supposedly a
new Patternless that is unproven in its genetic inheritance.
According to some individuals (Tremper, groovygeckos.com), if a mutation
acts recessive (even though it
isn't recessive) it is perfectly alright to slap normal offspring with the term het. I find this unethical. They are selling a animal, guaranteeing it's genetics when the genetics aren't there to guarantee.
With those facts, would you claim a gecko from a APTOR/RAPTOR parent could be het for APTOR/RAPTOR? Could you, ethically sell "het" for an unproven mutation for a decent sum of money (we're talking $500+)? Would you, as the founder of the mutation, prove out the genes behind it PRIOR to tossing it onto the market and taking money from individuals who trust you and your judgement?
Original thread:
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...532#post359532
Thread that turned into more debate on the APTOR/RAPTOR:
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...ad.php?t=76840
Directly from RT'S site:
Notice how he doesn't know a thing about how the mutation works and expects others to figure it out for themselves.
Quote:
Perhaps we are dealing with two separate recessive genes for eye pigmentation, but this will have to be sorted out over the next few years through test breedings conducted by the people who acquire these new mutations. It is not known at this time if R.A.P.T.O.R. times R.A.P.T.O.R. results in 100% pure R.A.P.T.O.R.s or if you get 50% R.A.P.T.O.R.s and 50% snake-eyed R.A.P.T.O.R.s.
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Quote:
Want to produce both RAPTOR and ECLIPSE from the same parents?
Here's four ways that can occur:
Breed a non-albino het for RAPTOR to a non-albino het for RAPTOR.
Breed a non-albino het for RAPTOR to an albino het for RAPTOR.
Breed an ECLIPSE het for albino to a non-albino het for RAPTOR.
Breed an ECLIPSE het for albino to an albino het for RAPTOR.
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Notice how he places "Hets" in quotes and that all of the offspring were sired from a single male.
Quote:
All of the geckos offered as "Hets", (R.A.P.T.O.R. gene carriers), were sired by the famous male featured on the cover of Reptiles and also pictured above.
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I would be just as disgusted if the Cornsnake community was poisoned by things like this. I provide proof and reasoning, and some individuals shrug and say "RT says it, so we're going to say it too." I've said three times to them what needs to be done to prove out the genetics in the APTOR/RAPTOR (RAPTOR x NORMAL). It seems no one wants to do it, they're just worried about reproducing the RAPTOR to sell them for a high dollar.
Anyway, enough of my rant...Let me here what you all think!