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My Amel Cinder/Z proves himself fertile!

carol said:
1) Emoryi pattern does not survive outcrossing. Strangely enough most Creams and Rootbeers have a lower saddle count with wide saddles.
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I agree that the adult normal colored images you posted look like corns without any obvious hybrid markers (if any such thing exists in captivity today), but the statement #1 above is partially incorrect. YES, the body blotch counts are more similar to corns in the cream-like hybrids, but the lateral blotch shapes are emoryi-like. The lateral blotch shapes are highly conserved, and "cornsnakes" with cream blood in them from long, long ago STILL show the lateral blotch markers of being creamsicles.

On another note, the verntal pattern I saw on ONE posted image (whatever a single sample means) was also similar to Baird's and not rosy rats or mainlain cornsnakes - plus don't forget the central fading of the blotches on the Type C Anerythristics like in baird's. Again, I am not trying to say these are hybrids. That isn't my point at all. I'm just pointing out the similarity in markings and asking for a possible explaination. I don't think there is one except "that's what they look like.) Finally, I don't know what other baird's hybrids look like. I could care less - I wish they didn't exist. BUT, anyone implying Type C Anerythristics can't be hybrids because there are minor differences between these and those of unkown origin I referenced would be like someone saying Type C Anerythristics were hybrids because ONE had reduced ventrals (ignoring the infulence of south Florida cornsnakes, of course....lol) and a high blotched counts.

All this is just babbling, really. No way to prove anything, and I'm not even trying to suggest anything. I ultimately just had a question on how common it is for them to have those high blotch counts. Even if I produced the first one from a gravid female collected in the wild, I wouldn't have been impressed with the looks of that morph. Different strokes for different folks, but I'd take a just about anything (except a reverse Okeetee) over a Type C Anerythristics any day. Of course, that doesn't mean the next multi-trait combo made with Type C Anerythristics isn't going to blow my socks off. :) Hope it does!

KJ
 
KJUN said:
I agree that the adult normal colored images you posted look like corns without any obvious hybrid markers (if any such thing exists in captivity today), but the statement #1 above is partially incorrect. YES, the body blotch counts are more similar to corns in the cream-like hybrids, but the lateral blotch shapes are emoryi-like. The lateral blotch shapes are highly conserved, and "cornsnakes" with cream blood in them from long, long ago STILL show the lateral blotch markers of being creamsicles.
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In F1 maybe, but I've seen many F2 and F3 creams that have no "pattern" markers, yet still have have the "no red" marker. Mine are the oppisite, they are redder than any cross you've ever seen, yet have strong pattern "markers" so there is just something else going on. I'm definitely not afraid of the conversation, I have to admit, I've gone through the thought process myself and I just couldn't really make the hybrid guess make sense. Like I said, the proof is in the parents.

KJUN said:
On another note, the verntal pattern I saw on ONE posted image (whatever a single sample means) was also similar to Baird's and not rosy rats or mainlain cornsnakes - plus don't forget the central fading of the blotches on the Type C Anerythristics like in baird's.
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Keep in mind, besides the Amel, I have not seen ANY Cinders that have any fading. So that's really not an issue. Actually, even the Amel does not have central fading. His saddles are the same look through out and they do not have darker rings with fading in the center.

KJUN said:
Different strokes for different folks, but I'd take a just about anything (except a reverse Okeetee) over a Type C Anerythristics any day. Of course, that doesn't mean the next multi-trait combo made with Type C Anerythristics isn't going to blow my socks off. :) Hope it does!
KJ
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Aww... comon', not even this gal... :)
http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showpost.php?p=418879&postcount=9
 
Do you have a name for the amel cinder combo yet? I can't help but think of peppermint icecream, with all the little flecks of red and white peppermint candy sprinkled through it :)
 
Isn't he just one of the single most beautiful corns there is? He looks more like strawberry cheese cake ice cream to me.

Nanci
 
Nanci said:
Isn't he just one of the single most beautiful corns there is? He looks more like strawberry cheese cake ice cream to me.
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Strawberry is already taken :) Peppermint, anyone? :laugh:
 
Ya, Serpwidgets has already suggested Peppermint to me and I thought it was really funny since that is exactly what this guy's name is. ;)

I hate combo names so I don't think I'll be the one to coin anything fancy. Amel Cinder works just fine for me. ;)

BTW, I did hatch one more male this season so he is no longer the only one around. :spinner:
 
carol said:
Ya, Serpwidgets has already suggested Peppermint to me and I thought it was really funny since that is exactly what this guy's name is.
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It seems peppermint was the obvious choice to everyone :) You have as much right as any breeder to run a name up the flagpole and see who salutes it :grin01:
I hate combo names so I don't think I'll be the one to coin anything fancy. Amel Cinder works just fine for me.
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I don't mind combined names if they actually describe the snake. My problem is only with describing snakes as het for a combo name, as if the traits are connected. IMHO, a snake can't be "het snow", it's het amel anery. I think both "cinder" and "peppermint" are excellent morph names because, when you see the snake, it's obvious what the name means. "Cinder", with its connotations of fireplaces and campfires, brings to mind the grey of ash and the red of embers, both of which are on display with the cinder snakes. "Peppermint", with it's flecks of red and white, evokes images of hard candies with red and white swirls and specks. It was so obviously descriptive of your amel cinder that you named him that, serpwidgets, with years of experience, suggested it, and it popped right into the mind of even newbies like me as well. You could put a hundred red and white corns on display and ask, "Which is the peppermint?", and yours would get every vote. It's just too perfect a description.
BTW, I did hatch one more male this season so he is no longer the only one around.
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On my budget, I'd have to start saving now to buy a normal het amel cinder in the 2010 clutches :( I'll have to settle for saving up for a cinder or het cinder next year. After seeing Dean's, it moved to the 2nd spot on my list, right after a female Baird's (hint...hint :laugh: )
 
When I hear peppermint, I think of something that looks a bit like your AmelZ boy, but with peppermint green spots instead of red. We mustn't have the same red and white peppermint candies over this side of the pond!
 
toyah said:
When I hear peppermint, I think of something that looks a bit like your AmelZ boy, but with peppermint green spots instead of red. We mustn't have the same red and white peppermint candies over this side of the pond!
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Guess not :) Green and white on our side is more likely wintergreen or spearmint than peppermint.
 

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My first thought at the amel cinder was this:
 

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