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The Cultivars (morphs)/Genetics Issues Discussions about genetics issues and/or the various cultivars for cornsnakes commercially available. |
Special delivery from Strange Cargo
09-21-2013, 07:27 PM
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#21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by notserp
Very nice snake. Do you think my yearling is just a normal Snow?
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Hard to tell, the flash has washed out the picture. I think I see tones of pink, which you don't see on normal snows (except babies).
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09-21-2013, 07:32 PM
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#22
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Good stuff Chip...keep it coming. Can you explain in more detail this process:
[quote] What gets confusing is pink snows appear to have been achieved by more than one method. /QUOTE] This is what I would like to learn more about.m What are the methods you are referring to.
Notserp - avatar pic is a male Poppy Corn Starburst X Neon (her terminology).
I have to go, I'll be back in a little to catch up and read more on this post.
Great stuff...
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09-21-2013, 09:48 PM
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#23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chet
Good stuff Chip...keep it coming. Can you explain in more detail this process... What are the methods you are referring to.
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I wish I knew. A lot of people have been working on pink snows and ghosts for a long time, and I wasn't one of them. I've just bought a couple over the years -and never even tried outcrossing any. None turned out as bright as Graham's animal, and I think I have only one adult female left. I may run this Strange Cargo male through her next year, but we'll have to see. It's probably safe to say a lot of people started with the JMG lines, so it only stands to reason that the same genes popped up in other breeder's projects. I would bet that some lines have strawberry/hypo, others have red factor, and still others have both. That's a guess, but I'd drop a 20 bucks on it in Vegas. My biggest curiosity is what "else" is in some of these? And is red mask/factor/coat/etc. another situation where we have 11 terms to cover the same mutation? I think red coat is an intensifier of red, and red factor is a wash of red over the whole animal, but I neither can personally confirm that nor even know for sure what is in some of my own stock.
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09-21-2013, 11:36 PM
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#24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chip
Hard to tell, the flash has washed out the picture. I think I see tones of pink, which you don't see on normal snows (except babies).
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ya, I tried with no flash and it was even worse. She definetly has strong pinks and peachy colors, mostly on he upper third of her body. I sure hope she has th Hypo gene. I'm still confused on the names and I'm sure people are calling the same snakes different names but what is the general name for a Hypo, Anery, Amel? aka Hypo Snow, aka Coral Snow?
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09-21-2013, 11:48 PM
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#25
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In theory, hypo shouldn't express in an amel animal. A reduction of melanin can't do much to an absence of melanin. Of course, we know this isn't always so. Our genetic glossary terms are just approximations of what the genes actually are. Are all hypo coral snows pink? I didn't think so, but I'd love to hear other's opinions.
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09-22-2013, 12:02 AM
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#26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chip
In theory, hypo shouldn't express in an amel animal. A reduction of melanin can't do much to an absence of melanin. Of course, we know this isn't always so. Our genetic glossary terms are just approximations of what the genes actually are. Are all hypo coral snows pink? I didn't think so, but I'd love to hear other's opinions.
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Thank you for your well educated opion. I really appreciate it : )
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09-22-2013, 10:02 AM
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#27
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Jim S developed Strawberry. Much later Chuck identified the Strawberry Gene.
With the original Bloodreds,
they were dark dark red snakes with the side and
top pattern which faded out or blended together with age,
a couple layers of surface red translucence on the first two layers of the skin surface,
then they had that deep red base/ground color,
and finally they had those annoying white splashes
on their bellies that breeders tried to get away from originally.
Each of those 4 genetic things which composed an original oldschool bloodred
is now several different things.
The Red coating, the red base color, the diffusion, and the white bellies
which appears to have been pied all along, but breeders were trying to get rid of it instead of
breeding to make the white more expansive.
When I see the base color of a bloodred, independent of the other three genetic things going on,
I sometimes wonder (I do not know) if that is possibly the early base of 'strawberry',
and, if, over time and re-selection and tweaking through breeding,
if that is Maybe possibly where "the strawberries" come from.
"what if" "Strawberry, the old-school trait" and "The Strawberry Gene"
are two different things with a common ancestral stage in its development?
*Post made with lots of indents to reduce left right scrolling to read it
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09-22-2013, 11:11 AM
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#28
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Dave, one of my pics was a bit big for small monitors. I've corrected that, sorry.
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09-23-2013, 02:42 PM
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#29
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It appears that we've got multiple red genes at play and they are mixing and mingling together because we, as breeders, are *intentionally* doing this, to compound the pink. The problem is, we are doing so visually and prior to actually understanding what genes are at play.
We have:
*Hypo A. - simple recessive
*Strawberry (allelic to hypo) - simple recessive
*Christmas (not a lot of study in this one yet) - allelic to strawberry AND hypo (so the thought is anyway) - simple recessive also
*Red Factor/Red coat - Dominant red masque affect; or APPEARS to be dominant - possibly a simple recessive that shows through to an extreme (as heterozygous)?
Many speculate about a second dominant red that is not allelic to red factor. Are red factor and red coat DIFFERENT? Or are they the same thing? These are questions that many of us are attempting to answer, I suppose.
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09-23-2013, 04:07 PM
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#30
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Snow:
Coral Snow:
I'm still confused on the effects of hypo on snows. Is the addition of hypo all that a coral snow is? Looking at a hypo fire stripe beside a fire stripe there is no outward difference at all that I can see (and my non-hypo fire stripe is supposed to be red factor). Does hypo change amel in some combinations and not others? Has anyone here had animals with *just* hypo and amel genes (I'm wondering if I haven't at some point)? If so, are they visually different?
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