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The Cultivars (morphs)/Genetics Issues Discussions about genetics issues and/or the various cultivars for cornsnakes commercially available.

Purist Breeders
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Old 02-06-2013, 04:14 PM   #71
Carpe Serpentis
Quote:
Originally Posted by starsevol View Post
Wen someone sells an animal AS A CORNSNAKE and it is bred and is not a cornsnake, that is no where near finding a dog in the wild that looks like a poodle.



Sorry, but nope. It's not. If it "looks" pure and they can make money off of it, why cull it? Anyone who would trick a snake into breeding with something it wouldn't and shouldn't is capable of just about anything.....
Why be sell something for something its not?

If your going to cry that some people are dishonest... I'll agree with you. There are many who will intentionally mislead you to make a dollar whether they are hybridizers or simply breeders. You can't make a distinction and say all hybridizers are bad just like you can't make a distinction and say all breeders are bad and dishonest. That is why you must take your own precautions and deal with trustworthy people with pedigrees or not... but at least trust them. If your dealing with someone you don't know, don't trust, and get taken.... I can't say I didn't see it coming.
 
Old 02-06-2013, 04:17 PM   #72
Carpe Serpentis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purebred_(dog)
"Among breeds of hunting, herding, or working dogs in open stud book registries, a crossbred dog may be registered as a member of the breed it most closely resembles if the dog works in the manner of the breed."
 
Old 02-06-2013, 04:18 PM   #73
DMong
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carpe Serpentis View Post
As for your continued lame blaming of hybridizers forcing their hybrid stock into your pure specimens that you and others breed. I don't buy it anymore than someone who states they found a dog in the wild and it looked like a purebreed so they were forced to breed it to their pure breeds. You choose what you breed with... not some hybridizer.
Hybridizers force nothing on me, or have jack-squat to do with what I maintain and breed here. However, hybridizers ARE a HUUUUUGE undeniable SOURCE of why they are everywhere in the hobby mainstream.......whether people can, or cannot distinguish them from authentic ones.......stop the insane "tip-toeing" around that part.

Maybe society should blame the parent for the kid that gets hold of and smokes some meth and OD's rather than the source that MADE the crap garbage to sell to the kid in the first place! Yeah,....always someone ELSES problem or responsibility the way you are always describing. You also know full-damn well that I think people should be FAR more knowledgeable than they are when it comes to wanting to be a "pro" breeder too without knowing JACK about what they are doing beforehand.

You are constantly playing any side of the fence with this issue to keep this hybrid thread going strong, which WAS your whole intent from the very beginning.....so well-done there..LOL!


~Doug
 
Old 02-06-2013, 04:22 PM   #74
starsevol
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carpe Serpentis View Post
Why be sell something for something its not?

If your going to cry that some people are dishonest... I'll agree with you. There are many who will intentionally mislead you to make a dollar whether they are hybridizers or simply breeders. You can't make a distinction and say all hybridizers are bad just like you can't make a distinction and say all breeders are bad and dishonest. That is why you must take your own precautions and deal with trustworthy people with pedigrees or not... but at least trust them. If your dealing with someone you don't know, don't trust, and get taken.... I can't say I didn't see it coming.
The POINT of creating hybrids is to make something different.
The misguided people who want something different won't settle for a hybrid that looks pure.
If you are a HYBRID breeder, and half of your mutts look pure, you sell them as pure because if they look pure no one will ever know, and no hybrid buyer would ever want them.
 
Old 02-06-2013, 04:23 PM   #75
Carpe Serpentis
Deal with people you trust and stop blaming hybridizers for getting taken. There are more than enough snakes for everyone to have their own niche or niches and be friends. That is all I am trying to say. The fewer precautions you take the more likely it is that your going to get taken. I'd love to live in an ideal world where everyone was honest and everyone took meticulous records and all corn snakes could be traced back to the wild. We don't live in that world.

Purists have not kept meticulous records of all the corn snake morphs back to their wild caught specimens. Fact.

Fact, hybridizers do not choose who you choose to buy corn snakes from.

Fact, you either take precautions or you get burned, pregnant, or otherwise end up buying a zirconium or a cheap imitation rolex.

Blaming others for your not taking precautions isn't going to get you anywhere and perhaps you can argue that anyone can be taken and I'll agree with you. But when you get taken... what do you do? You continue to breed those hybrids into your pure snakes without keeping track of their lineages? If you do that... you are a part of the problem your attacking. I'd much rather simply take responsibility and realize... yes, I may get burned so whats my back up plan. Luckily for me, I just like pretty so I'm easier to please.
 
Old 02-06-2013, 04:25 PM   #76
starsevol
Quote:
Originally Posted by DMong View Post
Hybridizers force nothing on me, or have jack-squat to do with what I maintain and breed here. However, hybridizers ARE a HUUUUUGE undeniable SOURCE of why they are everywhere in the hobby mainstream.......whether people can, or cannot distinguish them from authentic ones.......stop the insane "tip-toeing" around that part.

Maybe society should blame the parent for the kid that gets hold of and smokes some meth and OD's rather than the source that MADE the crap garbage to sell to the kid in the first place! Yeah,....always someone ELSES problem or responsibility the way you are always describing. You also know full-damn well that I think people should be FAR more knowledgeable than they are when it comes to wanting to be a "pro" breeder too without knowing JACK about what they are doing beforehand.

You are constantly playing any side of the fence with this issue to keep this hybrid thread going strong, which WAS your whole intent from the very beginning.....so well-done there..LOL!


~Doug
That pretty much sums it up right there!
 
Old 02-06-2013, 04:27 PM   #77
DMong
Quote:
Originally Posted by airenlow View Post
Approved bitches only. WTG Pablo!
Glad you liked and can appreciate that awesome top-quality Dauchshund bloodline Bethany!




~Doug
 
Old 02-06-2013, 04:30 PM   #78
Carpe Serpentis
Quote:
Originally Posted by starsevol View Post
The POINT of creating hybrids is to make something different.
The misguided people who want something different won't settle for a hybrid that looks pure.
If you are a HYBRID breeder, and half of your mutts look pure, you sell them as pure because if they look pure no one will ever know, and no hybrid buyer would ever want them.
I'm sure there may be people like that in the world just like I'm sure there are people that will probably sell you a corn that has a list of possible hets that there is simply no way it has.

With that being said and we understand we will never get rid of dishonest people... whether they be breeders or hybridizers... do we continue to blame and act like helpless victims or do we stand up and take responsibility for our own collections. Install safety alarms, fences, security guards, etc? You see, I think that while we can not prevent all harm. We can have safety measures in place. Something like... I realize this is a hybrid, I'm not going to breed this anymore if thats my thing. Or, this is a suspect snake and I really want to breed pure corns... let me go out in the wild and get one or go to a reputable breeder instead of some back alley thug who is selling you a rolex that isn't quite on the up and up.
 
Old 02-06-2013, 04:30 PM   #79
starsevol
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carpe Serpentis View Post
Deal with people you trust and stop blaming hybridizers for getting taken. There are more than enough snakes for everyone to have their own niche or niches and be friends. That is all I am trying to say. The fewer precautions you take the more likely it is that your going to get taken. I'd love to live in an ideal world where everyone was honest and everyone took meticulous records and all corn snakes could be traced back to the wild. We don't live in that world.

Purists have not kept meticulous records of all the corn snake morphs back to their wild caught specimens. Fact.

Fact, hybridizers do not choose who you choose to buy corn snakes from.

Fact, you either take precautions or you get burned, pregnant, or otherwise end up buying a zirconium or a cheap imitation rolex.

Blaming others for your not taking precautions isn't going to get you anywhere and perhaps you can argue that anyone can be taken and I'll agree with you. But when you get taken... what do you do? You continue to breed those hybrids into your pure snakes without keeping track of their lineages? If you do that... you are a part of the problem your attacking. I'd much rather simply take responsibility and realize... yes, I may get burned so whats my back up plan. Luckily for me, I just like pretty so I'm easier to please.
Personally, ANY snake I breed is from someone I trust, and in most cases I knew where the parents of those snakes came from as well.
But what about the ancestors down the line? What about the kids breeding pet shop snakes who don't know a hypo from a trundlefart? (sorry Nanci).

Sorry, I think that the creators of the crap need to be blamed.
 
Old 02-06-2013, 04:36 PM   #80
starsevol
Quote:
Originally Posted by DMong View Post
Glad you liked and can appreciate that awesome top-quality Dauchshund bloodline Bethany!




~Doug
Doug darlin', that was Josh who said that! But, I appreciate that gorgeous dog as well. Nice to see a well bred animal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carpe Serpentis View Post
I'm sure there may be people like that in the world just like I'm sure there are people that will probably sell you a corn that has a list of possible hets that there is simply no way it has.

With that being said and we understand we will never get rid of dishonest people... whether they be breeders or hybridizers... do we continue to blame and act like helpless victims or do we stand up and take responsibility for our own collections. Install safety alarms, fences, security guards, etc? You see, I think that while we can not prevent all harm. We can have safety measures in place. Something like... I realize this is a hybrid, I'm not going to breed this anymore if thats my thing. Or, this is a suspect snake and I really want to breed pure corns... let me go out in the wild and get one or go to a reputable breeder instead of some back alley thug who is selling you a rolex that isn't quite on the up and up.
Personally, I don't buy from people I don't know. But if people didn't breed the garbage in the first place, it wouldn't be there to do the damage it does.

You are a broken record.
 

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