"Hurricane" terminology

I've just bought what was billed a hurricane motley butter cornsnake. In a number of different threads, there were objections to the use of the term "hurricane" to describe the pattern variation of motley with regular, evenly spaced circles along the dorsal surface. From what I understand, this pattern is something that has been selectively bred for in motleys and is relatively predictable in its inheritance. Another thread compared this to the "sunglow" and "candy cane" forms of amelanism. Same gene mutation, however specimens have been selectively bred for a distinct appearance.

If this is the case, why then is the term "hurricane" objectionable as a descriptive for motley snakes selectively bred to display a distinct appearance, while "sunglow" and "candy cane" seem to be readily accepted as descriptives for selectively bred amels?

I'm new to cornsnakes so maybe I'm missing something. If anyone could educate me on the controversy I'd appreciate it. Thanks!

Heh, whoops, you reposted after I put in my answer, so a copy from the other thread:

The problem with the hurricane name is that people don't always mean the same thing when using it. Don Soderburg at South Mountain Reptiles has some of the prettiest "hurricane" motleys you'll ever see. By hurricane, he means having darker color around the circles (like the eye of the storm) with the lighter color in the rest of the saddle.

Picture directly from SMR website:
Hurricane Snow Motley. See the extra color around the circles?


Another picture directly from SMR website:
Non-hurricane Snow Motley, saddle coloration is more or less even.


Other people have taken "hurricane" to mean fully circle-backed, not the pattern of having dark around the eye like a hurricane, where the term was originally derived from. That is where the confusion has come from. It's unfortunate that there isn't a good term for the perfectly patterned full circle-backed motleys that many strive for. I think it would reduce confusion. I put a thread up about that once, but the response was minimal, so we're left with explaining it every time.

I suppose we could call them the "Full Motley" (like the Full Monty)...Ok, sorry, I need some sugar this morning or something.

:rofl:

I agree with Hurley. The only problem with the descriptive name of Hurricane Motleys is its misuse. Circles down the back of a Motley does not qualify them as being Hurricanes. Here is a great illustration which shows the intended use of Hurricane in reference to a distinctive pattern on Motleys.

Yes, I see this quite a bit that people confuse the Huricane name with a full patterned motley and I have some use it in referrence to a motley that doesn't have any elongated spots.

Hurley, you're right in that a name should be used for a description for the full pattern look to help avoid confussion. LOL....I love your name pick. Hope your sugar fix worked. :spinner:

Ya, a Hurricane motley stands out in a crowd of motleys as much as Candycanes stand out in a crowd of amels. Don definitely has shown the best examples of the pattern.

It's unfortunate that there isn't a good term for the perfectly patterned full circle-backed motleys that many strive for.

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"Perfect Motley" or "Circleback" would make sense. The trick is in getting people to stop misusing Hurricane. IMO the first step would be giving them an alternative name to use, otherwise you're just telling them their motleys aren't anything special and they're going to ignore you.

Serpwidgets said:

"Circleback"

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I like that one!

otherwise you're just telling them their motleys aren't anything special and they're going to ignore you.

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THAT's IT!!!
We have an equal problem in germany with a breeder selling hurricane bloodreds.
The Name bloodred because they are very red (like every motley is...), the name Hurricane because he bought some (grand)parents of these animals years ago, that were labeled that way and we would now call Circlebacks.

The Hurricane Bloodreds wouldn't even fit "Circleback".... I would call them Motleys ;-)

Circleback Motleys sounds good to me. It is used and accepted in the Boa World.

It is about time that we borrowed one of their terms, since so many of ours have been borrowed to describe new mutations that have popped up in Boas and Balls.

Thanks!

Thanks everyone! Hurley and joe you cleared that up perfectly - great visual aid with the pics Joe! Looking at mine more closely at this point, she'd probably fall more into the "circleback" category rather than hurricane, though she's still a fairly young hatchling and who knows how she'll eventually color out. We'll have a digital camera by Xmas and I'll post a pic at that point. She's a gorgeous snake. Thanks again!

It can be hard to see the Hurricane pattern on the lighter morphs such as Butter Motleys and Snow Motleys hatchlings, but generally you can see the pattern after their first shed. Anery Motleys are pretty easy.

It is pretty easy to spot the Hurricane pattern when they get older.

I agree, I like circleback. At least it gives people a name to use for a nice fully circled motley pattern.

Joe, nice hurricanes you have there. I will say, I don't feel it is all that hard to tell on a baby if a person knows what hurricane refers to. Yours baby pictures there are I feel are pretty obvious. And very nice looking too.

Here is a snow hurricane from Don S. and it definitely shows its protential even as a little one.

Butter motley pic

Here's the picture I said I'd post when I started the thread. There's a bit more of a pattern evident around each of the circles that has shown up more since HIS (yes, the snake has now been sexed) last shed. We'll just see how he colors out as he matures. Thanks to all who replied.

What morph is that last pic from your post 12/11 Joe? It is a sweet looking snake!!

Anerythristic 'HURRICANE' Motley

Here is a pic. of one of my Anerythristic 'Hurricane' Motleys. I got mine from Don as well and yes, He does have the nicest in the hobby !!!

Walter :wavey:

JTGoff69 said:

What morph is that last pic from your post 12/11 Joe? It is a sweet looking snake!!

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That would be a Hurricane Lavender Motley that I bought from Ted Frey. I produced a few of those this year and it will be fun to watch them grow up.

This first guy is different. I can’t quite put my finger on it, but he seems to be a flat lavender color and nothing else. I suspect he is homo Anery A, but the only reason is that the gene is in the mix and he is different. (Well, the photos went in in a different order than I put them in. This guy is the third photo. The rest are out of order too, but it is probably obvious which are which). :shrugs:

The last couple of photos is the girl that you ask about curled up with a “Sunset” Lav Motley and a pair of them. They came from Ted Frey as well. I am not sure why they look so different yet, but I should have some test result in 05. The pair that I got from Frey is starting to develop more Lav coloration, and are kind of a Lavender speckled Motley at the moment. My other Sunset that came from my Lavs look the same as they did when they were hatchling. (Last photo)

I produce more of the Sunset Lavs in Striped and Normal Pattern this year, by matching up breeders that have produced them in the past, so it seems to be reproducible. I still don’t know exactly how I am producing them. My male in the last photo will be breeding in 05, so I should begin to see what is going on with them.