Controversial Discussion: Direction of This Site

wilomn said:

Hey Rich, I feel like I've slipped back in time and stepped a couple of dimensions to the side and am now reliving the past.

Seems Fauna had a few of these discussions as well. In fact, I bet the ones there and the ones here are almost identical post wise, though different users made them.

Interesting isn't it?

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Yeah, I actually considered going to FaunaClassifieds, finding my replies there, and simply cutting and pasting them here.... :grin01:

bitsy said:

I think it's maybe a reference to the "taking the Lord's name in vain" aspect?

Not a concern for me, I have to say.

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I was going to argue this further, but in my research to back-up my interpretation of the third commandment I came upon this :

http://www.apuritansmind.com/Tracts and Writings/NameOfGodInVain.htm

which cast enough doubt in my mind that I quit. I'm a little concerned about the bartering aspect, because in desperate times I have been known to do so! I think my use of OMG might fall under the heading of idle discourse. Oh well. Something to ponder.

The Site

I think, overall its great!
There is alot of off topic stuff and other posts that probably arent appropriate,but that happens with a site this big.
There is only so much, that can be discussed about cornsnakes and pictures of them.
As far as some peoples humor, personally I dont mind .I have read stuff that has made me laugh and with times the way they are, everyone could use a good laugh every now and then.
As far as some of the drama, well I just try to avoid it.
Thanks Mods!......:cheers:

Rich Z said:

On another topic, profanity.

Also, keep in mind that I tend to gear my sites more to adults then I do to children. I don't actively discourage them from coming to this site (FaunaClassifieds, however, has a filter to deny registrations from anyone under 13 years of age), I also will not particularly make much effort to keep it a PG-13 rating.

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Having survived the "chatroom" fiasco of old, I was under a different impression of what you wanted for the site. No problem. I'm not a goody two shoes when it comes to language in my private world, but had thought you wanted family friendly here at CS.com because Fauna and other sites could fill those voids in people's internet world.

I will retract my concerns about language based on your clarification. :shrugs:

D80

Drizzt80 said:

Having survived the "chatroom" fiasco of old, I was under a different impression of what you wanted for the site. No problem. I'm not a goody two shoes when it comes to language in my private world, but had thought you wanted family friendly here at CS.com because Fauna and other sites could fill those voids in people's internet world.

I will retract my concerns about language based on your clarification. :shrugs:

D80

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I don't think there is really any conflict with this clarification. Being an adult doesn't necessarily mean that you have to use profanity in a public medium. Being "adult" in the context to which I am referring is to be MATURE about your online persona, and have the ability to use discretion in your word choice while composing posts. One of the drawbacks of IMMATURITY is the apparent inability to know what is socially unacceptable in public settings.

Rich Z said:

Being an adult doesn't necessarily mean that you have to use profanity in a public medium. Being "adult" in the context to which I am referring is to be MATURE about your online persona,

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And I agree 100%. My 13 and 14 year old students understand the concept of time and place. Regardless of what words and euphemisms they use amongst themselves, they know when they can't use it. I agree adults should know when/where it's appropriate, and it's disappointing that the general perception appears to be that "adult" means you can use profanity and pornography at your own discretion because your above a certain age and "who are you to tell me what I can and can't say" regardless of the situation or people present. :shrugs: I do know it's a gray area, but I guess some of us may be looking for you, as site owner, to indicate a few things language-wise that are publicly not allowed so there's less gray. (I know that's something you've already indicated you're not comfortable with, and I'm fine with that. It's your house.)

D80

Drizzt80 said:

And I agree 100%. My 13 and 14 year old students understand the concept of time and place. Regardless of what words and euphemisms they use amongst themselves, they know when they can't use it. I agree adults should know when/where it's appropriate, and it's disappointing that the general perception appears to be that "adult" means you can use profanity and pornography at your own discretion because your above a certain age and "who are you to tell me what I can and can't say" regardless of the situation or people present. :shrugs: I do know it's a gray area, but I guess some of us may be looking for you, as site owner, to indicate a few things language-wise that are publicly not allowed so there's less gray.

D80

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Well if this were an issue whereby only MY sensibilities would be affected, then it would be no problem and the gray area would be rather narrow. But I don't like to overly enforce my own personal guidelines on everyone else, even in a site I own. At least as long as I remain within "reasonable" (again by MY definition) limits. I tend to use "damn" a lot. To some people that is probably offensive. To me it is OK. To them it is not OK. If I then say that "damn" is not allowed, and use "darn" instead, that may still offend some people. This can ratchet downwards until we have used up the entire English language. So I give the mods a LOT of leeway with this with the admonition to err on the side of leniency as much as is possible. I'm sorry, but there just cannot be NO gray area in this sort of thing. The best advice I can give anyone is that if that have any doubts about what they are going to say being acceptable, then it may be wise to rephrase yourself before clicking that Submit Reply button. Or, as I have gotten to thinking lately, if you are going to post something, pretend that someone who hates your guts is going to cut and paste it somewhere to try to show you in the worst possible light....

I know that this profanity issue was covering an another thread, not that long ago.

http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=91825

I dunno if you saw that thread, but maybe it would help. :cheers:

Wayne

if you are going to post something, pretend that someone who hates your guts is going to cut and paste it somewhere to try to show you in the worst possible light....


That is probably a good philosophy to live by, and may very well be the case on some occasions.

I am sure this is frustrating for you Rich and the mods as well. Not going to make everyone happy on this one. It can be frustrating for we little people too. A few days ago I said something that was incredibly stupid even for me. Susan infracted me as well she should have. For that I humbly apologize to the entire planet. But for the most part, the infractions I have received have been for silly things that would be fine one day and not the next. None of them as blatant as your word damn. That is frustrating for me.

Overall, I think the site is well moderated. As far as profanity goes, I think we all pretty much know what we can and cannot say in open forum. I don't get offended with substitute words such as "freaking" or "F^!!&*#". Blatent use of profanity though should come at a cost, as we should all know better that it's not deemed as acceptable language here.
The only recent instance of over moderation I have seen recently was in the past 48 hours. A member asked a valid question in a thread, and was warned, with threat of been banned to stay away from posting in that thread.

ComoxCorn said:

The only recent instance of over moderation I have seen recently was in the past 48 hours. A member asked a valid question in a thread, and was warned, with threat of been banned to stay away from posting in that thread.

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You think that because you do not know the history of the individual then. :shrugs: You reap what you sow!

Wayne

wade said:

Rich, I just want to go on record as saying that over all I think the mods are doing a great job, with very littte thanks.

I just wish they would quite giving me &%$*&% infraction points.

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Why I outta.....

Wait a second....all your symbols probably just cover up the phrase "well-deserved" :sidestep:

I got to agree with the dodgy adult posts....
Whether you like it or not, corns are a newb snake and newbs will = kids in many cases...
Perhaps a 18+ section should be introduced?
And with all the personal attacks, perhaps an abuse only forum?
It could work.....

snakewispera snr said:

And with all the personal attacks, perhaps an abuse only forum?
It could work.....

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That would be the HELL forum on Fauna, and even there Rich had to tighten the reigns after awhile.

I still would like clarification on whether or not I'm allowed to say "freaking":sidestep:

ghosthousecorns said:

I still would like clarification on whether or not I'm allowed to say "freaking":sidestep:

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Previous discussions put it in the "Allowed" category, but then it may depend upon context, or which moderator views it, or if it gets reported, or if a mod is hormonal that day, or if it's the third Tuesday after a full moon,...

Susan, I know you were half joking there but that is exactly what I was talking about earlier. If nothing else it undermines the infractions themselves if you can receive one for any reason.

Lately I’ve seen a lot of damn and hell type words go unnoticed where a year ago that would have be forbidden. After you see it in several posts you come to view it as acceptable.

stephen said:

I think, overall its great!
There is alot of off topic stuff and other posts that probably arent appropriate,but that happens with a site this big.
There is only so much, that can be discussed about cornsnakes and pictures of them.
As far as some peoples humor, personally I dont mind .I have read stuff that has made me laugh and with times the way they are, everyone could use a good laugh every now and then.
As far as some of the drama, well I just try to avoid it.
Thanks Mods!......:cheers:

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Well said, Stephen, so I won't try to reword or resay it.

snakewispera snr said:

I got to agree with the dodgy adult posts....
Whether you like it or not, corns are a newb snake and newbs will = kids in many cases...
Perhaps a 18+ section should be introduced?
And with all the personal attacks, perhaps an abuse only forum?
It could work.....

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Although it was after I joined a german and french forum, out of curiosity,...Mike suggested I look at other forums less militantly amero-calvino-puritano-centric. I saw much less saccharine, sugar-coating, kid gloves, and heads in sand.
But I am, of course, a product of the US,...so I am comparatively and admittedly rather conservative, and endeavour to be very tolerant of the protection of the sensitive from the harsh inevitable realities of the world. It even has a certain victorian charm.

NOTE 1 : in a recent post (to paraphrase), Rich Z. alluded to increased traffic and membership on CS.com.
I think that speaks volumes, and in a vast metaphorical eclipse, renders the entire question a moot point.

NOTE 2 : in the last 16 months, my number of snakes has increased from zero to 46-ish. So my life has become more snakey. My husbandry has been steadily guided by the wise and more experienced, and my posts have moved from less-snakey to more snakey.
So, with this said, I think the site could not possibly be on a better direction...for me.

snakewispera snr said:

I got to agree with the dodgy adult posts....
Whether you like it or not, corns are a newb snake and newbs will = kids in many cases....

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As a parent I have to say I disagree with this statement well sort of, I do agree that corn snakes are one of the species of snakes that many people would consider to be a good first snake and even a good snake for kids.

But as a Mom I consider it totally my responsibility to keep my kids safe on the internet. Unless you are a kids site nick jr, noggin, barbie (as a side note I find the barbie site to often times be totally inappropriate for kids), etc, I do not believe it is a sites job to to protect my kids from anything (aside from something like very graphic hard core porn). It is my job to protect my kids on the internet. This is an issue that parents should take seriously and it is one my husband and I have taken very seriously. He works in the computer field so we realized early in their lives that this issue would effect us early and often. Our kids are allowed on the internet, but there are rules and lessons taught by me and my husband about what is acceptable, and about what to do if they find themselves in a situation that is no ok. We also have the appropriate settings and such to make sure that anything that is totally not appropriate for them is screened out, and we keep their computer in the living room. I do not consider a kid old enough to be on message boards if they are not old enough to hear an occasional swear, or adult like language/posts. I recognize that not all parents feel this way about the internet, my kids have friends who are not allowed over because they have a computer that can access the internet, even though I told the mom that if she did not want her kids online I could easily just say no computer while they are over. But I did want to say here that as a mom I personally do not feel that protecting my kids is the sites problem. Everyone else can feel differently and I respect your opinions but I wanted to put my 2 cents out there as well.

I don't consider the word "hell" a profanity, either. Obviously if I told someone here to GO TO HELL!!! that would be breaking the rules. I would never say that. But Hell is a place, real or not. If I were to say I had a hellish day at work, everyone would know what I meant. Not profane. If I said trying to pay for dog food, lizard food, snake food, bird food, aspen AND groceries all out of one check with no OT is hell, to me, that is not profane.

Main Entry: hell
Pronunciation: \ˈhel\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Old English; akin to Old English helan to conceal, Old High German helan, Latin celare, Greek kalyptein
Date: before 12th century

1 a (1) : a nether world in which the dead continue to exist : hades (2) : the nether realm of the devil and the demons in which the damned suffer everlasting punishment —often used in curses <go to hell> or as a generalized term of abuse <the hell with it> b Christian Science : error 2b, sin
2 a : a place or state of misery, torment, or wickedness <war is hell — W. T. Sherman> b : a place or state of turmoil or destruction <all hell broke loose> c : a severe scolding; also : flak, grief <gave me hell for coming in late> d : unrestrained fun or sportiveness <the kids were full of hell> —often used in the phrase for the hell of it especially to suggest action on impulse or without a serious motive <decided to go for the hell of it> e : an extremely unpleasant and often inescapable situation <rush-hour hell>
3 archaic : a tailor's receptacle
4 —used as an interjection <hell, I don't know!> or as an intensive <hurts like hell> <funny as hell> ; often used in the phrase hell of a <it was one hell of a good fight> or hell out of <scared the hell out of him> or with the or in <moved way the hell up north> <what in hell is wrong, now?>

— from hell : being the worst or most dreadful of its kind

— hell on : very hard on or destructive to <the constant traveling is hell on your digestive system>

— hell or high water : difficulties of whatever kind or size <will stand by her convictions come hell or high water>

— hell to pay : dire consequences <if he's late there'll be hell to pay>

— what the hell —used interjectionally to express a lack of concern about consequences or risks <it might cost him half his estate…but what the hell — N. W. Aldrich b1935>

As an interjection, or an intensive, I'm more likely to use "heck" and not feel muzzled. Might even use H E double hockey sticks!!