Info for would be corn breeders

Originally Posted by Candachan

Aaron, I agree with you. But some people here would say, "Well you should take responsibility for your animals or have not bred them at all!" The chickens were culled and used for food, but were otherwise healthy. Culled snakes are useful as Kingsnake food. I honestly think culling IS taking responsibility for your animals MORESO than wholeselling them to a pet store or selling them 'for cheap' to any shlomo who wants them.

The reason kinked babies came to Petco is because "breeders" that sell to Petco really are only concerned about money.

I agree with responsible culling, and just to be clear, I was about 15 when the chicken thing happened. I have also culled baby chickens due to deformities that happened in incubation, or neurological issues that showed up later.
I have a King snake, just in case I may have to cull some babies in the future. I also plan on getting a Speckled King (my favorite type of king snake) for a pet/culling babies, if it ever comes up.
I figured as much about the breeders selling to Petco,
But, we did get in a really pretty Anery, and what I think is a baby Caramel, lots of yellows on this little guy/gal...lol

Again, to be clear culling due to physical deformities, kinks, chronic health problems/diseases, non-feeding, or other detrimental health issues is acceptable in my opinion. That is responsible culling.

Culling chickens when you have 50 roosters and 30 hens is not responsible culling? They're not deformed or unhealthy, just loud and obnoxious.

Originally Posted by Candachan

Culling chickens when you have 50 roosters and 30 hens is not responsible culling? They're not deformed or unhealthy, just loud and obnoxious.

Let's tackle one issue at a time. We're talking about snake breeding. I'm not familiar enough with the farm life and would rather not comment on it.

Originally Posted by Nanci

But the snake eats mice (or something) as part of the food chain. Whether the mice were produced by humans, or the snake was out catching its own mice, it would still be eating mice. I can understand culling deformed babies, and babies that won't eat no matter what. I cannot fathom killing hatchlings that are not the target morph. To me, that is immoral. You "created" the life by planning the breeding- if you can't take responsibility for the "by-products," then in my opinion you shouldn't have the privilege of caring for God's creatures. No matter how you justify it, it is wrong.

AMEN! & AMEN!

I have never had to cull a snake but I have had one or two geckos that I have culled (hatch deformities). I Co2 them then I feed them to bigger geckos. Does that put me in the supporting life category or just the waist not want not category?

Culling needs to be done from time to time. I dont see doing it for any other reason than deformities. In the wild these animals would be the first to die by predator because they are slower. That's the way mother nature works. My 0.02 anyways.

I have really enjoyed this thread, well up until it was hijacked and turned into a debate about culling. As a newbie I can totally relate to the pull some people experience. Being a newbie to snakes I decided I would get 2010 babies and raise them, learning and growing experience as they mature. I haven't really given breeding a lot of though but when thinking about adding a new addition I look at who that new addition could be paired up with in the future if I do decide to breed but I have 3 years to make that decision. Until then I am really enjoying my babies and watching them grow. All of the points touched on in this thread are really good things to think about, even culling babies if need be. Over the next 3 years I will weigh all of the pros and cons of breeding and give it a lot of thought. I do not believe that people should breed animals just because they can. I have worked at the Humane Society and rescued, fostered, and rehabed parrots for over 15 years so I have seen first hand how unresponsible owners and breeders effect animals. I research any animal I am thinking about adding in my home because of those experiences.

As for culling, I grew up on a farm and we raised all of our own meat and grew our own veggies. When you breed and raise animals, mother nature is not always nice and it's cruel to make the baby suffer until it passes away when you can put it out of it's misery.

I'm not so sure the culling has really taken this thread completely off topic. It is definitely info for would be breeders, something you will have to think about.
Yes some breeders may go as far as culling perfectly healthy hatchlings. I won't- because I know to not breed so many in the first place if there won't be a demand. That's why I usually breed just 4 clutches a year, I know from being in this hobby for a while that in the course of one year I can sell or find homes for that many, but not more. So many corns are being bred that they are now becoming a "disposable" pet - look at the prices we are seeing on amels, normals, even ghosts these days. I love ghosts but have stopped breeding them for a while until some of my holdbacks reach adulthood that I think will produce something really special, not because I think I will make more money from them but because there are so many out there already. By not making them in the first place I won't have to cull them OR end up selling them for disposable pet prices.

So just to clear something up for myself. (Hypothetically) If I take my normals from a breeding and feed them to my kingsnake is it culling or just providing food to meet the natural feeding routines of that snake? We say mice are fine cause they are natural.

Devils advocate here: In nature a snake that cannot blend in to his natural enviroment is easy prey for predators. Natural selection takes care of "wrongly" colored snakes.

Btw just interested in opinions. I am enjoying this conversation.

Originally Posted by smallet

So just to clear something up for myself. (Hypothetically) If I take my normals from a breeding and feed them to my kingsnake is it culling or just providing food to meet the natural feeding routines of that snake? We say mice are fine cause they are natural.

That's a good point because it raises the issue of "intent". Did you intend to breed your corns solely and specifically as a source of food for your kingsnake or are you only giving it what you don't want? I have no problems with the former, even though i haven't heard of anyone doing that, but i'm sure it happens. I would think that rodents would be more plentiful and cost effective. Additionally, i feel that feeding kingsnakes with corns that have been *responsibly* culled is a great idea. I guess, you just have to be honest with yourself. In the case of the latter, why don't you want an otherwise healthy normal corn hatchling whose parents you chose to breed? Would you breed a pair of pet dogs and then feed the puppy that doesn't have the cute floppy ears you're looking for to your pet tiger (assuming tigers like eating dogs, and dogs are high in nutritional value)? I know that's an extreme comparison, but in both cases, the animals that you are breeding are your pets. If you are comfortable with your answer, then that's your prerogative.

I view my snakes as pets and as a pet owner, i have a moral obligation for their welfare, but some people apparently don't see theirs in the same way. They objectify them as disposable things with nice shiny colors. At the end of the day, all this collateral damage is for what? For a snake that has pretty colors? Or a snake that doesn't act like a snake? Or in the name of "improving" the gene pool? Improving in what way? Corn snakes are doing just fine out in the wild. They're not on the endangered species list. You're "improving" it for captive life, which is self serving enough, so why not try to be more humane about it?

I'm just going to let this thread die. I'm sorry if i offended anyone. Trust me, i'm usually very tolerant of different beliefs and would prefer to not get into a debate. I don't seek out conflict. I would prefer us to be one big happy family. You guys have a good thing here and a helpful community, but i felt that this issue needed to be addressed.