Tessera market

That is weird that hogs have maintained a very high price.

So, now, Tessera is "just" another pattern variation. But it's still a very cool one, and we sure haven't begun to scratch the surface of the possible morphs. When I'm making cool Tesseras next year with nice hets, or perfecting a selectively-bred "locality," at least plenty of people will be able to afford my babies.

Originally Posted by Nanci

You're so into balls, Nick, that surprises me.

I know right? Barczyk is a household name.

Originally Posted by nmoore601

That is weird that hogs have maintained a very high price.

Apples to oranges.

Corns are freaking PROLIFIC breeders compared to hogs. You can't compare corns to hogs, corns to balls, or hogs to balls. All the markets/species/genes are different. It's not possible to make a comparison that is logical.

Speaking from a "Personal" Point of view: I don't really care what a tessera is

worth..... 'Cause this ONE is Priceless!

And do we really need to even bring up the hybrid crock of crap again? Seriously. ALL snakes, because of how patterns develop, are bound to have the same basic patterns across all species. Educate yourselves if you aren't familiar with that concept.

Nanci, I wasn't around I guess when the first tessera hybrid discussions came about, but I don't really think it's fair to call it a 'crock of crap'. My graduate research revolved around detailed breeding experiments involving pattern development in colubrids. While stripe morphs are common in many colubrid species, the expression of the stripe morph in each species is different. The striped pacific gopher snake comes about through the inheritance of a single copy of a dominant gene. While it is a stripe morph it differs quite a bit from a stripe cal king. There are similarities, but there are plenty of differences as well. It's my belief that there is overwhelming evidence for the tessera to have hybrid origins. Can I prove it? Nope. Does it really matter? Nope! Seeing as how many of the snakes we work with in captivity interbreed with other species in nature (I know of three cal king x gopher hybrids found in the wild by herpers), I'm okay that the swimming pool isn't pure.

I think discussions, if they remain civil, should be had and are beneficial for the hobby. Let me ask the following question. Which seems more likely, that a brand new dominant gene just magically popped up in the corn snake world (from either a spontaneous mutation or from a wild-caught animal having the dominant gene), or, that one of the dozens of hybrid breeders out there simply kept breeding the first corn x stripe cal king offspring back to corn snakes to make them dominantly corn? I think the latter. I also can see some of those offspring getting 'lost' in the herp industry by one or more wholesalers, only to be found by someone who knows corns. I'm telling you, if F2 snakes (75% corn x 25% striped cal king) look pretty much identical to tessera corns, what would an F4 look like? I don't think that kind of similarity, or ease or their creation through popular hybridization, can be overlooked. Nor does the idea that this could be the origin of the tessera corn snake mean it's a crock of crap.

Btw, I'm not trying to be argumentative at all, just sharing with you my thought process. Personally, I love the tessera morph, and would still keep them happily if I found out they did have hybrid origins. Seeing as how we're probably way up in the F-generations they're practically pure corn anyways!

Mitch

That's a looker there Rich. Did you produce it?

Originally Posted by nmoore601

Never heard of that breeder.

Snake Bytes TV? BHB Reptiles? He's seriously the biggest and most well-known snake breeder in the world.

Originally Posted by Mitchell Mulks

Plus, it doesn't help that the super corn (75% corn X 25% striped cal king) looks identical to a tessera (and is probably the origin of this morph. Seeing as how Cal king hybrids have been made for decades...and while keeping Occam's razor in mind, it seems likely that this is the origin of the tessera morph in corns; jungle corns have been popular for a LONG time).

I would LOVE to see the Cal king hybrid that looked identical to a tessera to me. I Googled "Super Corn" and "Striped Jungle Corn" and found no photos even close, so please make a believer out of me. And really, this hybrid thing has been done. And discredited. A lot.

Originally Posted by Mitchell Mulks

, I still don't know how the freaking hognose market hasn't crashed?! They easily double-clutch, sometimes even triple clutch, and can lay upwards to twenty eggs per clutch. Weird!

As a guy who breeds both species, I can't put into words how much more prolific my corns are than my hognose. It's not even close. Then you have hog females that eat their eggs, they are notorious for laying outside the laying box, the babies can be hard getting started feeding, some are born at 3-4 grams... I can't stop smiling when I interact with them, and I adore the species, but they can be a lot of work. And I think the anaconda -the codom hognose version of tessera -is about exactly where tessera was before Barczyk came along. A lot of people have a bunch, but what they can really get for them is a lot less than you see in the ads.

Originally Posted by nmoore601

That's a looker there Rich. Did you produce it?

Nick....

Nope.

Maybe I'll have the energy to quote the pattern developement data. Not tonight. I'm drinking every time Joe Biden flashes his insincere toothy grin, in an attempt to forget about my cancer dog for one night. But the hybrid debate has been discussed into the ground. Similar to political or religious views, no one is going to change their mind.

Chip,

Heres the hatchling from a jungle corn (where the cal king used was the dominant stripe morph) x corn. This hatchlings is roughly 75% corn x 25% king. It has the dominant dorsal stripe, clean dark borders around the stripe, and tessellated lateral flanks. The breeder has also indicated that the inheritance of the stripe and tessellated sides behaves identical to tessera corns; i.e., dominant inheritance. Like I said, just imagine this bred back to corns for two more generations; tesseras!



As for hognose snakes, no, they aren't as prolific as corns...but geez, they're a whole lot more prolific than kings, milks, or ball pythons. I produced 37 hoggies this year from a single female who double-clutched, while almost all the milks I bred only gave one clutch of six to eight eggs. While hoggies may not be AS prolific as corns, they're a sure lot more prolific than many other snake species in our hobby.

Like I said, I'm not trying to be argumentative at all, but I can't overlook the striking similarities I see in that hybrid and tesseras.