Tessera market

Originally Posted by Kevin S.

Ask and you shall receive.

Jungles, of all of 'em and at a glance. Not even close to identical to tesseras. I won't argue that after decades of being bred to corns, I could tell, I'm just missing the evidence. Just because there are amel bulls, kings, and rattlesnakes doesn't mean amel corns came from them either. Because something exists in another species does not lend credibility to hybridization being at play. But stop arguing with Autumn and look up the threads, I think you'll see why many of us have come to this conclusion. If you're back before 4 AM I'll know you didn't read it all.

When I first saw tesseras I never once thought hybrid. It was only recently when I saw this photo that I began to heavily question the tessera gene's origin in corns:



Just seeing that photo, recognizing MANY of the similarities it has with the tessera morph, and understanding how breeding back to one of the parental species makes each generation more like that particular species, well, it made me question things.

I have no horse in this race. Personally, as I stated before, I don't care if tesseras are pure corn or if they do have cal king origins. All I want to do is have open communication with others after seeing that photo. That photo, and the other decade-old photos posted by Kevin, are pretty strong evidence that the tessera origins beginning from a cal king x corn hybridization have to be considered. Seeing as how that photo came from a 2012 hatchling, I think it'd be very hard to have the same discussion a year ago when that photo didn't exist.

There is more than enough evidence from the trial breedings and crossings that if there was a hybrid involved all throw back traces are long gone, if they ever even existed to start with.

Yup, you're right. IF tessera did arise from a hybrid event, then there have been enough generations of breeding to pure corns that all non-corn phenotypic markers, save the tessera pattern, are long gone. Yes, you're right. But it's still an interesting discussion to have! Aren't the origins of things we see in nature the basis for countless instances of research that have occurred? To stop asking questions based upon the mindset that just because you can't see it any longer so it shouldn't matter...well, that'd seriously impede our advancement as a species.

Also, if all that matters is us being able to 'see' hybrid markers, then why don't we just accept ultra morphs as pure corn snakes? Why is it so important to continually label them as hybrids? Hell, there's been so many generations of ultra-based morphs bred that it's almost pure corn, but it's sacrilege by many to not call them hybrids. From my research on the topic, it's still in question whether or not they truly are hybrids. Some say yes, that they know the person who introduced the original ultra snakes into the hobby, while others still question the validity of that account. Either way, by the statement

There is more than enough evidence from the trial breedings and crossings that if there was a hybrid involved all throw back traces are long gone, if they ever even existed to start with.

...then if there is a doubt to golddusts, then we should treat them the same as tesseras and drop the 'hybrid' label. Right?

It's okay Mitchell, I'm well just as well versed in passive aggressive as I am sarcasm.

Autumn, sorry if I came across as passive aggressive. I meant to be completely transparent in my feelings towards your belittling behavior. I find you rude, belittling, narrow-minded and a multitude of other adjectives. In my time here on Cornsnake, or any other corn forum, you are the only person I've found myself upset with. I've seen you deprecate others and repeatedly trivialize the thoughts of others who differ from your perspective.

No sarcasm here. I don't like you. I don't like how you're presence tends to more often than not be negative. Your presence, in my opinion, tends to retard the development of threads.

100% transparency. No sarcasm. No passive aggressive behavior.

How come every thread turns into a argument? We all have different opinions about topics discussed and who says this one is better then that one. I agree with Mitch and Kevin, Tesseras could possibly be a hybrid when you see the pics of those hybrids. I have also done some reading on the Tessera morph and from what I read is the original owner of the trio that was sold had his info on his hard drive and threw it into a lake. So who really knows where they came from? Im not saying they are hybrids but Im open to the discussion that they could be.

Wow. Really? You got all that from "do research."

That is way out of line.

If those hybrids were bred, then crossed back, you would eventually start seeing really odd ball stuff. That is NOT happening in tesseras. There is your proof. Done.

Your comment here is telling us exactly what we SHOULD see. It also tells us with CERTAINTY what isn't happening as well. Furthermore, you're "there is your proof. Done." comment, is nothing more than you telling anyone questioning things "here it is, shut up, and end of discussion". Do you seriously not see how negative in tone your comments are? Can you not understand why a comment like the one I posted above would offend anyone interested in having a conversation on the topic? Really?

It's called research. Do it. Then jump in and discuss. Nearly 100% of the speculations you are making have solid answers in massive thread here.

The "it's called research" comment is condescending, plain and simple. The "do it" comment asserts anyone making such a comment hasn't investigated the topic to your standards. Plus, two word comments tend to be harsh and simply rude, such as your "do it" remark. You also then give me 'permission' to come back and involve myself in the discussion only after i've done my 'research'. It's an elitist remark that is unnecessary and displays the parts of your personality that are utterly upsetting. The last part, the part about 100% of speculations being made already in MASSIVE threads, is flat out ridiculous. I don't know about you, but I work full-time, am finishing my PhD dissertation, and have a wife and three kids. This back-and-forth has consumed more time than I should have given it, so finding the time to sit down and read MASSIVE threads is unrealistic. However, if I can involve myself in a few productive back-and-forths, then that can be rewarding both intellectually and physically.

So, no, I did not react to you because of the one thing you listed in this comment:

Wow. Really? You got all that from "do research."

That is way out of line.

I am reacting to how negative the majority of your 'contributions' tend to be that I've seen. I'm reacting to your elitist attitude. I'm reacting to your two-word orders. I'm reacting DIRECTLY to your poor attitude towards others who would like to think on their own and ask questions that are different than yours. Please don't play the unknowing victim. If you honestly don't see how negative you are, please, go back and re-read your interactions with others and then get back to me.

[

I am reacting to how negative the majority of your 'contributions' tend to be that I've seen. I'm reacting to your elitist attitude. I'm reacting to your two-word orders. I'm reacting DIRECTLY to your poor attitude towards others who would like to think on their own and ask questions that are different than yours. Please don't play the unknowing victim. If you honestly don't see how negative you are, please, go back and re-read your interactions with others and then get back to me.[/quote]


Well said.

And here I thought I was wandering into an economics discussion. Silly me; it's Ultra Thread 2.0.

Some light reading. (From 2008)
And some more.
And even more. (From 2010)
And more! (From 2011)

Edited to add that any and all questions you may have regarding tesseras being hybrids have been answered and discussed at length in those threads. Some of the people who have done the research have doctorates. Jussayin'.

Does anyone remember who was the breeder that had the creamsicle tessera at Daytona the first year Don and KJ took their tesseras to Daytona?

dc