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Animal Cruelty Local Boy Charged.(not for weak at heart)

cowboyman13 - :flames: (just kidding :rolleyes: )
I don't think of the SPCA as tree huggers. They deal with some serious animal abuse issues. And these are animals people bought as pets, then basically turtured in one way or another. I don't equate them on the same level as the paint throwing peta nazis.

I agree that this could have been delt with buy the parents and some much needed disapline & maybe from the sounds of it theropy. I don't know of any grounded teenager willing to start clipping parts off an animal. Just MHO.
 
CornCrazy said:
Roy, I think her issue was that she was called an idiot...not that others are just as opinionated.

Thanks for pointing out the need for me to clarify my statement. I was mostly responding to her last two lines, where she wrote that all are entitled to their opinions, but that this discussion should die. At no time do I think that name calling is appropriate in a mature discussion, and it is obvious that weaver is no idiot. But I also think that everyone is entitled to express their opinions, and I don't think that this argument is ridiculous as weaver stated. She stated her opinion, argued it, and then seemed to declare that after doing so, the discussion should be over. I have no problem with her opinions, or with her expressing them-- even about the ridiculousness of this discussion. I disagree with her, that's all. :)

And my de-legging joke should not be taken seriously. I do care, and I hope that her cats are not subjected to this procedure. ;)
 
Roy Munson said:
And my de-legging joke should not be taken seriously. I do care, and I hope that her cats are not subjected to this procedure. ;)

lol aw come on, they have little carts now a days :sidestep:
 
I tried to stay out of this one, but I have to say that Kliban is my favorite author. :sidestep:
Still not sure how this went from an amateur surgeon removing rodent teeth to a debate on saving personal belongings from feline furballs :shrugs:
 
mbdorfer said:
Still not sure how this went from an amateur surgeon removing rodent teeth to a debate on saving personal belongings from feline furballs :shrugs:

Yeah! We should find the thread de-railer responsible and string him up. :rolleyes: :grin01:
 
yep I said it

I am the one that said IN MY OPINION you are an idiot.
I still feel that way.
Yes that is calling names.
Yes it is rude.
Yes it was probably uncalled for.
Yes there are plenty of people who disagree with de-clawing but would also disagree with what I said or the way I said it.
But like you said...You posted your opinion, so guess what? I posted mine.
It mainly goes back to the statement about de-clawing so you don't have to beat the cat.
Idiotic.
People seem to think de-clawing and spaying are the same. They are not.
We spay and neuter our pets so there are not thousands and thousands MORE cats and dogs that get sent to animal shelters, pounds and humane societies to eventually be euthenised, when they don't get adopted.
It is for the overall health and saftey of the animals.
How many vets recommend spay and neutering. How many vets recommend de-clawing. I know of at least three vets in this area that refuse to de-claw a cat. They also refuse to clip ears and tails. They will, however spay and neuter dogs and cats.
Big difference.
I have seen cats and dogs spayed and neutered and I have seen cats de-clawed. The recovery time for spay and neuter is much quicker.
By the way...I have 8 cats. Love each one to death but way too many to have at one time.
 
My cat came to me spayed and declawed. I had no choice in the matter. I found her "as is". I don't really agree with de-clawing, because it is a bit brutal IMHO, but on the other hand, its kind of cute to watch her try to scratch everything. I had a cat with claws for a few years and he did tear up my favorite chair, but you know what... SO!! It is just an old piece of crap chair anyway, (in a god awful shade of pink:grin01: ). I also taught him to use a scratching post and he scratched the heck out of that thing everyday. I put tape on the chair so he wouldn't scratch it anymore and it worked. So you can have your cat declawed or not, either way its still going to act like a cat.
 
Actually, the reason to spay and neuter goes beyond simply keeping animals from reproducing. Spaying a female reduces the chance of mammary cancers, and removes all possibility of pyorrhea, a serious infection of the uterus. Neutering males eliminates the chance of testicular cancer and some other types of cancers. As far as declawing. I think it's a cruel surgery with little or no benefit except to the owner. My cats are all indoor cats, and they all have their claws. They've all learned where to sharpen them too. Usually sharply saying their name is enough to get them to quit sharpening. As far as the reason for this thread, there is no reason why a 14 yr. old should not know that cutting teeth and claws off a poor mouse is cruel. He needs serious help before he becomes the next Jeffrey Dommer. Almost all psychopaths started out torturing and killing animals before moving on to people.
 
A cat named Max

I am not posting to get into the "debate" I just wanted to tell a little story. Two and a half years ago my boyfriends precious little boy Tyler was killed in a drunk driving accident that also took the life of his mother. I inherited Max, Tylers kitty cat. He was a huge tabby that had been declawed, I was told that the reason for the declawing was so that Tyler wouldn't be scratched by Max. Of course my "opinion" is to teach the child how to play with the cat nicely so that he doesn't get his face clawed off. When my son gets clawed by his cat he learns "hey, maybe I shouldn't touch my cat like that she doesn't like it". Anyway on with the story, I had a cat and dog of my own that go in and out all day long. It was sooo sad watching Max pout and then try attacking my cat when she came back inside. He wanted to go outside too! On two occasions Max escaped and as you can imagine it was sheer panic and long minutes (seemed like hours) trying to find him before a neighborhood dog did. So the story goes that our family left town for a month and had to find care for the animals. Max went to the home of a trusted family friend who knew the extra special importance of this pet to our family. Max got outside during his stay and we have never seen him again. The friend found parts of him and figured a coyote got a hold of him since he couldn't climb a tree for safety. I was not for declawing kitty cats before this and am even more stead fast against the practice now. You can do your best to keep your feline friend indoors but unfortunately your best isn't always good enough for your pets safety. People will continue to do what suits them and I'll do what suits me. :shrugs: Just wanted to share my Max story, thanks for reading.

Angela
 
On the topic of animal cruelty I can't believe what I just saw! I was shopping at wal-mart in the pet department and I herd a boy crying but the father was laughing so I listened to here what was going on. I realised the dad had put two bettas in the same bowl to watch them fight. I went off to find a worker but couldn't find one (when you need them there never there) so I went back to the fish and the man was gone but the bettas were still going at it. I grabbed one of the fish nets that was laying in the sink and put them back into there separate bowls. One, or both, would have died if I'd done nothing. It makes me sick that someone would do that for fun! I keep bettas and love them as much as my corns so it really upset me. Sorry, I just needed to vent. :cry:
 
(IMO) Walmart should definitely not have a pet dept, I always feel sorry for their fishes. That's sad. Especially the dad doing that & then teaching the kid something like that is funny.
Makes me wonder what kind of parents that 14 year old in the OP had, we really do get a lot of our values handed down that way.
 
I spent alot of time last night speaking to cat owners and de clawing is almost unheard of hear in the UK (thank god) america has alot to answer for yet again! IMO
 
*Once again the opinionated one rears her ugly head*

I just had to jump in here... I haven't read the rest of the thread yet so this may have been said BUT I felt once more couldn't hurt anything...

cimckee said:
Another thing, for all of you that believe de-clawing a cat causes it unnecessary pain, I have to ask, do you spay/neuter your animals? I believe in spaying and neutering, because it easies the pressure on an already exploding animal population, but it doesn’t benefit the animal in any way.

NOT ONLY does it ease and already exploding animal population but it creates a solution to the many (MANY!!!!) deaths to millions of healthy animals each year. ones that would inevitably be mulitiplying, homesless, starving, ferrel and god only knows what else. when you stop the cycle IT DOES BINIFIT the indiviual animal. go to your local pound/shelter on thin-out day --- see how all of those UNBINIFITED ones are rewarded! they are gas'd and euthanized... wow what a gift! and over 50% or those gas'd animals were once someones pet OR it's offspring that no one wanted ... so ummmmm yes spay/neuter would have benifited that animal... WOULD HAVE if someone would have just taken the time!

cimckee said:
If simply de-clawing a cat can provide it with a warm and caring home, then I would say that not only does it not “hurt” the cat; on the contrary, it benefits the cat. One more thing, calling people an idiot simply because they do something that’s different than you and as benign as de-clawing a cat doesn’t show much acceptance of others and their ideas.


Have you ever seen a cat with paralysis because of a declaw gone wrong ???? I have, many of them.... have you ever seen a declawed cat that had been beaten up by another animal ??? I have..... have you seen half eaten declawed cats that were let outside???? I have !!!! I don't give a doodley-squat what the reason being NO animal should be declawed!!!!

Even in the best of circumstances, things change.... I received a cat from my vet once that was brought in because her LOVING owners had passed... the cat was declawed (completely) and no one would take her because of the fact... the vet was going to have to euthanise her when I stepped in and said I would take her. That cat couldn't even jump up on my sofa - she would flop right off the back! what kind of life is that!!!!!

there are new ways to prevent scratching without causing a cat these horrors -- have you ever heard of soft-paws ??????? maybe before you mutilate another cat you should check into them...

'nough said...
 
Actually, the reason to spay and neuter goes beyond simply keeping animals from reproducing. Spaying a female reduces the chance of mammary cancers, and removes all possibility of pyorrhea, a serious infection of the uterus. Neutering males eliminates the chance of testicular cancer and some other types of cancers.

These are good points. I just wanted to add that the term for a pus-filled uterus is pyometra, not pyorrhea. -rrhea pertains to excretion in feces (like diarrhea) or discharge (like from an tooth socket). I'm not sure I've heard it used for pyometra, although I can see where it could be applicable in an open pyo with pus discharge from the vulva... :D

On the benefit of neutering front:

In dogs, it's been shown that spaying before the first heat virtually eliminates the chance of mammary tumors (which are one of the most common tumors in dogs and 50% of them are very aggressive, spreading rapidly to the chest, often before diagnosis.) Pyometra is a very real risk in older intact females and is very life threatening and an expensive surgery with a marked risk as these animals are quite sick when they come in, their blood values are terrible, and of course there's that lovely risk of rupturing that huge, fragile pus-filled uterus...

The males have many "intact male" problems as well. Testicular cancer, prostatic hyperplasia and cancer, perianal adenomas, perineal hernias, etc. Older male intact dogs are also quite prone to hyperplasia (thickening/growing) of the perineal glands, resulting in a rather unattractive "donut butt", and can go on to perianal adenomas...very common, can get huge, ulcerate, and are a complete shame when their prevention is so simple. Like humans, older dogs may get enlarged prostates which causes them to strain to urinate as well as defecate (getting feces up and over the prostate/squeezing by it into the pelvic canal). All this straining can weaken the muscular wall and cause perineal hernias...a horrible thing to have to have or treat and horribly painful to many of them, especially if the bladder gets flipped back and entrapped. This also makes me sad to see so many of them in these old intact male dogs for no reason.

As for declaws, I personally try to talk people out of it, showing them how to trim claws, mention soft paws, etc., but if people are set on it I have no problem declawing a cat if it will keep the cat in the home. The 2 top reasons cats are dumped in shelters or booted outside are inappropriate urination (cats acting like cats...something people here have said if you can't take, you shouldn't own a cat) and destructive clawing. I have declawed 4 paws for cats owned by AIDS patients and little old people who take weeks to heal from the scratches a well-meaning cat leaves jumping up and off their laps. I feel these people shouldn't be declined the right to give a loving home to a cat and these cats live extremely happy lives, probably better than most. Keep in mind, too, that there are many cats out there that either don't have the temperament for or don't have owners that can handle restraint for clipping nails and applying soft paws.

When I declaw a cat, their feet are locally blocked (nerve block to the paws with bupivicaine) for recovery and they are on pain medicine for the first several days. I use scalpel blades (which is much more precise in my hands), not a Rosco clipper, as I've had to "redeclaw" cats where they've left a piece of P1 in the paws and I've seen too many nicked pads with them. They have bandages on only overnight and go home the next day. They are a little tentative the first day and are perfectly fine within a couple. Now, if you have someone do a butch job and cut pads, misapply tourniquets to cause radial nerve problems, or something of the sort, I agree that is awful. I personally take great pride in my pain management, in a careful declaw through a tiny incision, and in cats that walk on their paws nearly normal the next day and normally within a couple. If I get them at 12 weeks, they don't limp at all. I hate to declaw adult cats, but if they must be declawed then I want to do it...because I know it will be done right with the least amount of discomfort possible.

As for the cats outside issue, as much as people are against declaws, that's how much I am against people letting their cats outside. The risk of hit-by-car, the risk of feline leukemia and FIV (feline AIDS), the number that come in with cat-bite abscesses, broken limbs, fleas, parasites, and wounds from who knows what... But that's another topic and another opinion. ;)

Have I seen bits of declawed cats torn to shreds outside or declawed cats brought in dead from a mauling from dogs? Sure have. Have I seen "clawed" cats brought in for the same? Probably MORE.

So, final stance from me (sum up opinion if you will) is that I prefer not to declaw cats, but that's not a decision for me to make for others and there are instances where it is necessary given the cat and the family it lives with.

edit: To address the original issue... What that child was doing is no doubt cruel and I don't understand where the parents are on this one. It's not something I would have ever considered doing when I was 8, let alone 14. He's old enough to understand it's wrong, so there's either a major defect in his upbringing that he doesn't understand that or there's a major defect in his personality that he disregards this, much like the 3 17&18 year-old boys that broke in and beat to death an entire no-kill shelter full of cats with baseball bats because "boys will be boys". I treated the 3 of the 7 that even made it to the university still alive (one lost a leg because the bones were in so many tiny fragments there was no repairing them, one had to have a feeding tube and its jaw wired shut to heal, and one lost an eye and had multiple skull fractures) and if that's what condition those kitties were in, I can only imagine the scene they saw upon entering the shelter that morning. These boys had no remorse, "they were just cats" and the reaction by some of the people who knew the boys was appalling. "Boys will be boys."
 
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They have found that all serial killers have a past history torturing animals. It is a small leap from animal to sibling, to spouse, to some one you don't even know. Basically this boy is sick and needs help. I stated earlier that I wanted to know where the parents were. But these are the same kind of parents that "reason" with their toddlers instead of saying "I'm the parent, this is how it is."
 
Preita said:
They have found that all serial killers have a past history torturing animals. It is a small leap from animal to sibling, to spouse, to some one you don't even know.
Please tell me you made that up. Sounds like the pot leads to heroin thing I used to hear in high school :sidestep:
 
mbdorfer said:
Please tell me you made that up. Sounds like the pot leads to heroin thing I used to hear in high school :sidestep:

Actually no. I used to have a huge "enclycopedia" of serial killers (for one of my law/ psychology classes in college) & thats one of the things they had in common. Its actually a common theory.

Either way, a person that does that and has no emotional responce to clipping off an animals teeth & toes needs to seek help. Feeding live is one thing, causing undue pain is another :(
 
Hurley said:
http://www.cvm.uiuc.edu/petcolumns/showarticle.cfm?id=373

http://www.columbustelegram.com/articles/2003/10/21/news/news3.txt

http://www2.webmagic.com/abuse.com/index7.html

A few links I came across that aren't PETA/ALF/HSUS propaganda. Funny enough, the Dr. in the first one (Dr. Rhonda Schulman) is an internal medicine specialist I used to work with in Phoenix. Small world. LOL

Thanks for posting this. It's one thing to eat meat & decide to wear fur, but it's another to conscientiously abuse animals. I'm not a big fan of the Peta police :grin01:
 
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