stupid breeders why cant you just leave things be

Would reminding folks that the United States has been called, at least in the not-so-distant past, "The Melting Pot" be just a little bit metaphorical right about now? Or maybe I'll just shut up, have another drink and simply look at photos.

I don't really see the big deal. I just recently purcased a golddust motley knowing full well of this "issue". I have been breeding animals of different types for many years but am just starting into snakes. If there is hybrid blood in these it is such a small amount that to me it is not worth worring about. I will enjoy Nugget for her beauty which is exactly why I bought her. I have no plans on breeding her in the future unless i get a golddust male. I also purchased a creamsicle 2 years ago and I have been enjoying watching her grow.

Originally Posted by gelshark

Seems like in Europe they only want pure bred snakes, just like they only wanted pure bred humans in the 1940's
Maybe in 70 or so more years they will be more tolerant?

Lets keep it friendly man; that's out of line Lars, jmho

Originally Posted by dave partington

So, back when Rosy Corns were P. g. rosaceae, if they were bred with P. g. g., then those offspring would have been hybrids, but now that Rosy has been re-taxonomized and is a P. g. g., it is okay to breed them together.

So, an old cross would be hybrid stock, but a new cross would not be.

Alternately, P. g. slowinski, now, if bred to P. g. g. , produces hybrids, but 15 years ago when it was still a P. g. g., the breedings of that with other P. g. g. would not be hybrids.

Right?

^^^ This sums it all up in my opinion.

Originally Posted by chris68

Lets keep it friendly man; that's out of line Lars, jmho

Sorry to all those that might be offended by my previous comment

I completely agree with Dave and Wyldrose. In the taxonomy world there are lumpers and splitters. I for one am a lumper.

I know this isn't corn related but I have bred a cal-king to a brooks king and the babies looked EXACTLY like eastern chain kings.......coincidence? I think not.

Most colubrids are FAR more closely related than most "purists" want to admit. If these animals were as different as some claim then why would the anery gene in corns be compatible with the anery gene in hondurans? Obviously they had a common ancestry thousands of years ago. I am not saying a honduran is the same as a corn, obviously they are not, but in my opinion the colubrid family tree looks a little more like a family pole than a family bush.

Originally Posted by Ryan Beatty

I know this isn't corn related but I have bred a cal-king to a brooks king and the babies looked EXACTLY like eastern chain kings.......coincidence? I think not.

Yeah, so what?? you just pointed out the main problem with the very lame point you attempted to make. A brooks king (floridana) x Eastern getula that was man-made on purpose will only get sold and dispersed around the country AS authentic Eastern Chain kings down the road, only to display weird bizarre "off" intermediate phenotypes here and there randomly later on because of it. Not to mention they would be half bogus man-made crosses. Is it a great thing to purposely dilute other known to be authentic Eastern getula in hobbyist's collections all over the country originating from say North Carolina, South Carolina, New Jersey, or anywhere else for that matter?. Who cares if they will breed and look fairly similar sometimes? That is even worse than them looking extremely obvious. because most hobbyists can't properly ID a cornsnake from an anaconda to be quite honest.

Originally Posted by Ryan Beatty

Most colubrids are FAR more closely related than most "purists" want to admit. If these animals were as different as some claim then why would the anery gene in corns be compatible with the anery gene in hondurans? Obviously they had a common ancestry thousands of years ago. I am not saying a honduran is the same as a corn, obviously they are not, but in my opinion the colubrid family tree looks a little more like a family pole than a family bush.

Again, what does that have to do with the price of tea in China?. What does possibly being related thousands of years ago or hundreds of thousands of years ago have to do with some shlep intentionally breeding crosses in his basement and polluting known genuine lineage animals in collections with his intentional man-made crosses for chrissakes??

All I can say is that I am extremely thankful you don't own and work with some of the extremely rare stuff I am working with here. With your mindset you would have them all screwed up in no time and looking like a typical "hobby Hondo" in no time when right now they are the only known authentic bloodline of Lampropeltis t.abnorma in the entire U.S. or Europe!

I will sell you some 5 carat cubic zirconia for genuine diamond market value if all that matters to you is if something "looks" fairly close to being authentic when it is clearly NOT!..LOL!!

Also, I will sell you a "clone" fiberglass Shelby Cobra Stallion kit-car for $250,000 as well since it "looks" pretty close to a real one.


~Doug

I'm stuck in the office waiting for my freight, so here's my LAST comments/thoughts/opinions lol etc on this issue...my O P I N I O N folks

In regards to corn snakes:

a. All morph corns are suspect. Until DNA testing is done on each and every line no one is going to to be able to definitively, 100% plus without a shadow of a doubt that "A" line is pure and "B" isn't. You can say "I see hybrid markers" or "I heard he bred so and so to a 3 headed moon snake" but it's all guesswork and hearsay. Whether or not you choose to believe what you are told, considering (or not) the source of your info is up to you.

b. We all should care. Because there are folks here and elsewhere I consider "friends" (as much as having "cyber relationships" with fellow hobbyists makes them a "friend" ) that really have concerns about this I have to care that if they bought something from me it would be exactly what I tell them it is, and more that they would take me at my word because they trust my word.

c. My goal is to produce very pretty pink "snakes". Yes they are as much a corn as the next morph, but they from a suspected baclground/bloodline and will always be sold/traded as such...

jmho and Happy Friday :*)

Chris

Same old stuff from Dmong.........sigh.

If you have ever seen any of my ads you know I CLEARLY disclose the exact background of any and ALL hybrids I sell.

If it's a hybrid, I'm proud of it and will shout it from the roof tops, if it's not a hybrid then I represent it as such, pure and simple.

I do everything in my power to make sure the hybrids I sell are represented properly. Just because someone could take on of my Candy Colored Imperial Pueblaclowns (I should have those this year by the way) and breed it to a pure pueblan DOES NOT mean they couldn't take a pure pueblan and breed it to one of your "better than everyone else's" pure hondurans.

Once a snake leaves your possession there is little or nothing you can do to control what others do with it whether that being making hybrids with it or completely neglecting it's basic needs of food, water and proper housing.

Unless you have done DNA testing on all your snakes you could be sitting on one of those forbidden "frankensnakes" thats 0.00000000000001% not pure, oh NO! You need to destroy your entire collection now............give me a break.

Everyone who knows me knows I usually sit back and stay out of debates on forums but I've been around long enough and have done enough research and breedings to have a valid voice in these arguments.

ok so i'm still confused are they or are not hybrids because on ians vivarium they are getting labeled as corn x gray rat snake - http://iansvivarium.com/morphs/species/hybrids/ultra/

and on the corn snake they are getting classed as pure corn snake -
http://thecornsnake.com/morph-corn-s...mel-corn-snake

am i just reading to much into this should they just be labeled as ultra