Testing for Stargazing

Originally Posted by Lyion

How much does it cost to gentically test? I know you test out morphs by breeding but I wouldn't want to test out stargazing and create more possibly! How do you test them?

No gene has been isolated. We just know it follows a single gene recessive pattern of transmission. No genetic testing is possible or available.

Originally Posted by JoannaD

Walter the numbers for the het gazer crossing look right but they are not right for the homo gazer according to what I understand from Chuck. According to him with a homo gazer at 7 eggs the per cent is 99.2187 and with 6 eggs it is 98.4375.

Again, if I understand the formula from Chuck correctly this is how it goes.

With a gazer there is a 0.5 chance the egg gets the gazer gene. So 100(0.5^x) , where x is the number of eggs you have, gives you the percent chance that you are getting a false negative result, i.e that your snake fooled the odds and really is carrying the gene. if you then subtract that number from 100 it gives the % that your snake does not carry the gene.

So 0.5^6 X 100 = 1.5625, 100-1.5625=98.4375 or 98.4375% the snake does not carry the gene.

With 7 eggs the equation is 0.5^7=0.7813, 100-.7813=99.2187 or 99.2187% the snake is free of the gazer gene.

With a het gazer the 0.5 changes to 0.75 because 0.75 times the snake will not get the gazer gene.

With that my brain is fried and I need to go clean the kitchen!

Um, ok................LOL
A little secret, math wasn't my strong point in high school....shhh, don't tell anyone

As you can see the numbers you have and what's on the list as far as percentage per number of eggs, isn't too far off.

Walter
BOUT' CORNS !!

That's the spread Joe gave to me Walter. It's definatley worth testing to be sure we don't get this disease way out of cpyrolysis.

I really appreciates everyone contributing to this thread.

In an earlier post someone stated that there are only 20 documented breeders testing. We need that number way up especially with folks pumping SK into every morph. Some big breeders are producing hundreds of SK morphs untested.

Maybe we can get a group that has a certification stating their stock is being tested. Any thoughts from you guys?

SG is horrible, really. I completely agree. However, I don't know of a way to test without creating even more. I've not yet bred, (That will likely happen in 13 or 14) but my girl is of very good blood and I have a feeling she isn't SG. I plan to breed for fun, but if any of mine turn out to be SG I'll keep them and refuse to breed them or their parents.

Its unfortunate that there aren't that many breeders that test but I know the number has been on the rise since breeders started to loan animals for testing the easier it became to test. I assume most the top end breeders have had the chance for gazer to be shared with them so they test there animals. But along with that note I believe that gazer animals should be controlled, registered, and only giving to reputable people to reduce its spread and keep track of where it is, The hatchlings should be culled when its discovered, and only animals that live should be for testing purposes only and registered. Its important to defend captive bred/all populations of corns the disease Stargazing is the "cancer" of corn snakes and its a war worth fighting.

Walter, I'm glad to hear you're going to be testing critters. I was planning on getting 1.1 gazers this year to raise up to test the two I won at Daytona in 2010, but if you clear their parents I wouldn't need to test them.

Nick, if my attempt at gazers from Russel at the source falls through, would you help hook me up with a 1.1 of homozygous gazers?

Originally Posted by Reptilekyle64

....But along with that note I believe that gazer animals should be controlled, registered, and only giving to reputable people to reduce its spread and keep track of where it is, The hatchlings should be culled when its discovered, and only animals that live should be for testing purposes only and registered. Its important to defend captive bred/all populations of corns the disease Stargazing is the "cancer" of corn snakes and its a war worth fighting.

Do I think testing stock for Stargazing is important, YES. Am I foolish enough to believe we have any semblance of control, NO. It is in lines other than SK. And "Big" breeders do not test. I'm referring to the breeders that sell to the big box stores that then disseminate those infected strains to the public. Who then just breeds for "fun" and further spreads the gene.
I applaud testing and eliminating SG from as much stock as is possible. The, let's say, 50 breeders that are testing and trying to produce Gazer-free stock are but a drop in the bucket when compared to all the corns produced in any given year. I produce about 1200 hatchlings a year. Add to that Walter's 1200, Joe P's and any other breeder that is testing and you haven't even made a dent in what gets sold by the "Big" breeders who aren't testing.
And some of those guys are big names in the business too. The animals are seen as a profit margin not a sentient creature. If it eats or spins makes no difference to them once it is sold. Corns have always been the poor serpent relation in the pet industry. They are easy to handle and care for and breed easily too. Any moron can put two animals together and produce more. And they do so at an alarming rate.
So we can test but it sure feels a lot like herding cats to me.

Terri

Originally Posted by crackerhead

So we can test but it sure feels a lot like herding cats to me.

What Terri said...

Joe says it's not specifically a sunkissed issue. Do we need to test all of our stock? Is SG simple recessive? Can it be "bred out" or will it keep popping up here and there forever? And if we test ALL of our stock, what are we supposed to do with all of the stock that then carries the SG gene?

Originally Posted by dave partington

Joe says it's not specifically a sunkissed issue. Do we need to test all of our stock? Is SG simple recessive? Can it be "bred out" or will it keep popping up here and there forever? And if we test ALL of our stock, what are we supposed to do with all of the stock that then carries the SG gene?

Probably just sit around and take up space....