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king snake influence in tessera morph?

That still wouldn't necessarily prove anything. Motley patterns have shown up in boas. Stripes are in garter snakes, kings, and corns. There is an old-world ratsnake with a dominant tessera-like pattern mutation.

The fact that a california king snake and an old world ratsnake can have similar patterns just shows this breeding will not prove anything.

We can actually take this even further.

Cats and mice both have siamese patterns.

Rabbits and mice and rats share a great many patterns between them, though rabbits are not rodents.

Cattle, sheep, and pigs all have split hooves.
 
Shiari said:
That still wouldn't necessarily prove anything. Motley patterns have shown up in boas. Stripes are in garter snakes, kings, and corns. There is an old-world ratsnake with a dominant tessera-like pattern mutation.

The fact that a california king snake and an old world ratsnake can have similar patterns just shows this breeding will not prove anything.

We can actually take this even further.

Cats and mice both have siamese patterns.

Rabbits and mice and rats share a great many patterns between them, though rabbits are not rodents.

Cattle, sheep, and pigs all have split hooves.
Click to expand...

That's not the point.

Everyone knows similar patterns show in similar animals.

What Dave is trying to prove is that a visually striped cal king cross will NOT produce visually striped offspring in the FIRST generation when bred with a corn snake.
 
Except he's not using a pure cali-king. He says she's 75% corn snake. Doesn't this mean that the stripe.... was probably there when her 50% parent was bred to a 100% corn snake? That means it already was produced wasn't it?
 
Again, not the point.

The male she is being bred to is not carrying the stripe gene.

The point of this breeding is to test and see if the stripe from cal king influenced animals is DOMINANT like Joe supposedly claims it is. Anyone with a half a brain knows Joe's theory is bunk, Dave is just going the extra mile by proving it.
 
I'm not seeing anything about that hybrid female being homozygous OR heterozygous for stripe herself?
 
Cali-King stripe pattern is dominant to the 'typical' pattern.

http://jhered.oxfordjournals.org/content/72/4/238.abstract

There is a good chance the striping on the female being used IS kingsnake dominant-stripe.

That said, I do NOT believe tessera are from striped cali-kings. The fact that cali-kings AND that old world ratsnake both can independently make a dominant stripe pattern weakens part of the "oooooo hibird!" hypothesis. It's popped up multiple places before, so why not in corns?
 
Shiari said:
I'm not seeing anything about that hybrid female being homozygous OR heterozygous for stripe herself?
Click to expand...

I must be speaking Portuguese or something...

The point of this breeding is to test and see if the stripe from cal king influenced animals is DOMINANT like Joe supposedly claims it is.
Click to expand...

He is testing to see if THAT PATTERN, which comes from a cal king influence, is DOMINANT.

The male is 100% pure with no king influence.

The f1 animals should not look like the mother.

He is comparing to Joe's theory. Did you read Joe's theory? That might help.
 

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I was talking about corn-snake stripe, which is recessive. Because I was wondering why it would matter if the male was not het stripe if the female also wasn't het or homo stripe.

And king-snake stripe has proven dominant already at least in king snakes.
 
Shiari said:
I was talking about corn-snake stripe, which is recessive. Because I was wondering why it would matter if the male was not het stripe if the female also wasn't het or homo stripe.

And king-snake stripe has proven dominant already at least in king snakes.
Click to expand...

He is doing this experiment to debunk the the theory that Joe Pierce slapped all over kingsnake.com.

That's the WHOLE point of this breeding.
 
Aaaaand, if the king snake stripe proves dominant (as it already is showing on a 75% corn animal) that will prove what?
 
Shiari said:
Aaaaand, if the king snake stripe proves dominant (as it already is showing on a 75% corn animal) that will prove what?
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Aaaaand did you read Joe's theory?

Dave is taking logical steps toward testing some of the claims made in this thread.

IF it does, then it opens the door to start proving or disproving the other points brought up.
 
I read Joe's theory a long time ago. And dismissed it as silly. I'm not about to dig into the middle of this thread trying to find it once more. I seem to remember something about the breaking up of the stripe being 'evidence' to him, but you also see that with corn-genetic stripe with regards to the quality of the stripe, or the amount of diffusion or color saturation in various other morphs.
 
Shiari said:
I read Joe's theory a long time ago. And dismissed it as silly. I'm not about to dig into the middle of this thread trying to find it once more. I seem to remember something about the breaking up of the stripe being 'evidence' to him, but you also see that with corn-genetic stripe with regards to the quality of the stripe, or the amount of diffusion or color saturation in various other morphs.
Click to expand...

The entire point of this breeding is to test some of the claims made in the theory.

Dave conveniently relinked it in post #182. Less than a page back.
 
So what's the plan for all the offspring produced from this?.....nevermind the theory. Like, where will they go......freezer?, show tables to be bought and bred later on?.........and as what? Even if they are initially labeled 100% accurately...once they are in posession of countless others, all that goes completely out the window. What if the Cal. kings used originally were Newport-Long Beach coastal aberrants and not San Diego stripes?


~Doug
 
DMong said:
So what's the plan for all the offspring produced from this?.....nevermind the theory. Like, where will they go......freezer?, show tables to be bought and bred later on?.........and as what? Even if they are initially labeled 100% accurately...once they are in posession of countless others, all that goes completely out the window. What if the Cal. kings used originally were Newport-Long Beach coastal aberrants and not San Diego stripes?


~Doug
Click to expand...

I suspect Dave will hold a fair few back for additional test breeding. But who knows on the rest. Dave is a stand up guy, I know he will not do anything crazy like breed them to llamas and make striped corllamkings ;) , but only he can say for sure.


I'm not really a fan of hybrids either, but enthusiasts that breed them responsibly don't bug me as much as unethical indiscriminate breeders.
 
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