Proposal regarding hybrids / pure corns

Originally Posted by jkgeorge

If a locally endemic population of snakes existed in your area would you release an invasive species to improve the looks of the native snakes? Of course not. It would be unethical and not ecologically sound. We have to start looking at our hobby the same way we look at the natural world. With unsound practices we CAN essentially extirpate a species from our hobby. This idea of "I'm making the most visually appealing snake, to hell with the consequences" is very troubling. We have to start being conservation minded within our hobby or else our hobby won't be sustainable.

Why do we have to do that jkgeorge? That might be your view and goal, but as you say, hobby is not nature. If we would all breed hybrids, we would still have a sustainable hobby, only not the way you want it to be. Sorry, but your statement is an opinion, nothing more. I think keeping snakes in cages is more unethical to begin with than breeding hybrids.

If everyone hybridizes their corns then how is the corn snake hobby sustainable?
Of course it's just my opinion and everyone can feel free to disagree, but isn't it best to err on the side of caution until we can figure out what sorry of repercussions our actions have?

Originally Posted by jkgeorge

If everyone hybridizes their corns then how is the corn snake hobby sustainable?
Of course it's just my opinion and everyone can feel free to disagree, but isn't it best to err on the side of caution until we can figure out what sorry of repercussions our actions have?

I mean snake hobby in general. But if the people whom want to have pure corns, breed pure corns together, they can sustain their version of the hobby, no problemo. I'm pretty sure there are enough people whom are willing to breed 'pure' corns to have a nice gene pool. I don't get why many breeders whom are against hybrids are so concerned about a population of snakes they can avoid and why some are upset by the idea that other people whom care less themselves, might get a 96% pure corn instead of a pure one without knowing (which still can be 96% pure but are bred by purists whom have not DNA tested their pure snakes, yet consider them pure).

Very well said SnakeAround. The fear of not having pure corn snakes for those that want pure specimens is legitimate in that it is a fear some have. This fear can be rectified by dna testing breeding stock after a determination is made to determine which specimens are in fact pure. Keeping a pedigree going back multiple generations eventually will give even more weight to the claim that those breeding pure specimens are in fact still doing so. The longer the dna proven pedigree the longer the proof. Problem solved. Those hybridizing can do the same or they can opt to not care and simply label them hybrids as those seeking hybrids may not be so keen to prove exact lineage, but then again they may want just as meticulous records of DNA pedigrees to give weight to their efforts. The bottom line, the more you spend to prove you lineage is exactly as you say it is the more money you are going to be able to charge for your snakes. Were talking about dna testing breeders only. Those wishing to breed progeny from breeders can simply pay for the dna test for those they are willing to breed with. One could also offer an option of buying snakes with and without pedigree information or dna testing. Those with the pedigree cost more and those with dna testing already done could charge for that dna test before sale or simply have the new owner/breeder register and test the snakes dna in question before breeding. If you want to compete with the big dogs then sometimes you have to do the same thing that big dog breeders do... i.e. dna testing. If your satisfied with not knowing what a snakes pedigree may be...then by all means take someone elses word for it and then wonder where this new strange mutation/gene popped up then that is another choice as well. One thing is for certain, there is room for hybrids and there is room for pure snakes. One can always question any snake that DNA testing is not done on however.

Originally Posted by SnakeAround

I think keeping snakes in cages is more unethical to begin with than breeding hybrids.

You have interesting ethics.

Originally Posted by SnakeAround

I think keeping snakes in cages is more unethical to begin with than breeding hybrids.

Then why do you keep them if you think it's unethical?

CarpeSerpenis, can we see pics of your collection?

Originally Posted by SnakeAround

I think keeping snakes in cages is more unethical to begin with than breeding hybrids.

Originally Posted by Chip

You have interesting ethics.

Originally Posted by BloodyBaroness

Then why do you keep them if you think it's unethical?

Barbara, I just have to ask...do you think keeping snakes in cages is unethical overall? Or just keeping snakes co habbed in small cages under constant stress WHICH YOU HAVE ACTUALLY ADVOCATED IN THE PAST???
In every single co habbing thread, there you were defending the practice. Has something changed?

I think what barbara meant is that even just keeping snakes is more ethically arguable than breeding hybrids - not that she herself things it's morally wrong ^^

thinks* ... I should really get used to the fact that I don't have an edit button here