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The Cultivars (morphs)/Genetics Issues Discussions about genetics issues and/or the various cultivars for cornsnakes commercially available.

Purist Breeders
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Old 02-06-2013, 05:22 PM   #91
DMong
Quote:
Originally Posted by starsevol View Post
Those 3,000.000 to 5,000.000 snake shop buyers are not dishonest. They just have no idea how badly polluted the pure cornsnake species has become BECAUSE OF HYBRIDIZERS.

But being a hybridizer yourself the more polluted the better, right?

That was precisely my point. And of course, Carpe falsely interpreted it as the countless pet store buyers being the dishonest parties so it would continue by me responding..LOL!

Time for me to bolt from this insanity. Carpe did however have some fun with occupying himself today with yet another hybrid thread he started, so it worked out great for him in that respect.


~Doug
 
Old 02-06-2013, 05:28 PM   #92
starsevol
Quote:
Originally Posted by DMong View Post
That was precisely my point. And of course, Carpe falsely interpreted it as the countless pet store buyers being the dishonest parties so it would continue by me responding..LOL!

Time for me to bolt from this insanity. Carpe did however have some fun with occupying himself today with yet another hybrid thread he started, so it worked out great for him in that respect.


~Doug
Yes, he must be so proud that this one reached 10 whole pages!
 
Old 02-06-2013, 06:02 PM   #93
dave partington
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carpe Serpentis View Post
It became readily clear that this thread may deteriorate very fast.
I guess you missed the first 8 pages.


Quote:
Originally Posted by starsevol View Post
I've been paying attention.
Well thank goodness for that. I was a fixin to lern ya, but sumwon dun beet me two it.

Hey Doug, how about some pics of them purdy puristbreed corns of yours, just to tease us like?
 
Old 02-06-2013, 06:45 PM   #94
hypnoctopus
Well, part of the reason this thread came to 10 pages so quickly is because of the constant sarcasm and belittling. I don't necessarily agree with everything Carpe Serpentis says, but I've been following this thread closely (as well as the other hybrids, tessera origins, etc. threads), and everyone always jumps on him as soon as he posts. Now if he's just a troll, then you're just feeding him, and if he's not, then it's just being rude.

By all means, continue to counter his arguments with your own, but I'm really getting sick of all the fun-poking. Even though this isn't the BOI, remember that your potential customers might be reading and I would be hesitant to conduct business with someone who has so little tolerance for differing opinions that they resort to being childish.

(P.S. I like hybrids AND 'pure' corns! )
 
Old 02-06-2013, 07:51 PM   #95
dave partington
Good points.
Considering he doesn't have any snakes at all, the "Every cornsnake is a hybrid until proven otherwise" and "Every cornsnake in captivity in the world is a hybrid" agenda has become tedious. Though on other threads when asked to show his snakes, he shows pictures of other people's snakes, and even posted a picture I took, or something not his, with no credit.

Personally I have several wild caught and F1s from wild-stock corns here, but what's the point of saying anything about them since he's already made up his mind they're hybrids anyways. Nanci already told him where to find the info regarding lineage origins in post 14, Autumn in post 16, and Michelle made a good point in post 45

How we went from
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carpe Serpentis View Post
If your going to cry that some people are dishonest... I'll agree with you.


to:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carpe Serpentis View Post
1. No one has any pure corn snake morphs that can be traced back to the wild or if they are they aren't telling.

2. Hybrids are so rampant in the gene pool of whats available that there really is no point in fighting it. Its futile when so many are selling impure specimens.

3. A great deal of dishonesty seems to be taking place if so many hybrids are out there being sold as pure corns as it is and there is little trust for someone to simply hybridize and another to breed pure specimens.

4. There is little hope for the new hobbiest of acquiring pure specimens before he has become a part of the problem that purists hate.

5. When you lack a good argument for why so many impure corn snakes are in purist collections.... you can always fall back on blaming the evil hybridizer. It wasn't my fault... Some hybridizer snuck it into my collection, but now I guess the hobby is stuck with it as its breeding now.

6. I could go on, but there is really no point other than to say, my original post was sincere and after being attacked by Starsevol in her very first reply to this thread... It became readily clear that this thread may deteriorate very fast. I believe thats whats called self-fulfilling prophecy in pscychology. You believe things will go a certain way so you jump on and start berating them from the start thus instigating defense and so on and so forth and here we are. I take full responsibility for letting you get my goat. I won't blame my hybrids on your introducing them into my argument so to speak.

I really did simply want to know how many morphs lineages could be traced back to wild caught origins in their entirety . The simple answer to end this post could have been... there are none... or there is one... etc.
I never chose to define myself as a "purist". Nor have I ever defined someone as being an "impurist". He seems to enjoy making jabs and then when asked something, pulling out the 'psychology card'.
Personally I have learned nothing from this thread. Just another waste of time which could have been better spent productively.
At this point I'm going with the option in post 52.
 
Old 02-06-2013, 09:09 PM   #96
BloodyBaroness
Quote:
Originally Posted by dave partington View Post
Good points.
Considering he doesn't have any snakes at all, the "Every cornsnake is a hybrid until proven otherwise" and "Every cornsnake in captivity in the world is a hybrid" agenda has become tedious. Though on other threads when asked to show his snakes, he shows pictures of other people's snakes, and even posted a picture I took, or something not his, with no credit.

Personally I have several wild caught and F1s from wild-stock corns here, but what's the point of saying anything about them since he's already made up his mind they're hybrids anyways. Nanci already told him where to find the info regarding lineage origins in post 14, Autumn in post 16, and Michelle made a good point in post 45

How we went from




to:



I never chose to define myself as a "purist". Nor have I ever defined someone as being an "impurist". He seems to enjoy making jabs and then when asked something, pulling out the 'psychology card'.
Personally I have learned nothing from this thread. Just another waste of time which could have been better spent productively.
At this point I'm going with the option in post 52.

Tremendously well said Dave. A very good summary of events.

I am also following post #52. I will no longer feed or indulge the behavior.

The other users have done nothing but demonstrate a pride and passion for what they keep.
 
Old 02-07-2013, 12:54 AM   #97
DMong
Quote:
Originally Posted by dave partington View Post
Hey Doug, how about some pics of them purdy puristbreed corns of yours, just to tease us like?

mmmmm,..... I dunno Dave, I could be real embarrassed if I show them off and they have some possible hybrid influence from 326 generations ago or something.


~Doug
 
Old 02-08-2013, 10:42 AM   #98
Carpe Serpentis
I've read those threads Nancy supplied and yes, it seems like the information I was after is not in them in the first 10 morphs I've read. It seems like many others have said, that once morphs become involved things get crazy. No one seems to be able to trace the lineage of their morphs back to wild caught lineage on all sides.

As for Dave being hurt that I don't list each and every source for pictures I acquire on the web. I do not take credit for anything. I applaud anyone who posts on such a picture they can find that they have seen one of their snakes or adds information to it. I am in the research phase as I have stated repeatedly. I am learning where I want to go and what I want to try by studying hybrids others have created, pure snakes I have seen some post, and even the breeders themselves. Those that are crass, I could care less about acquiring their snakes from them directly as I would not like to fatten them up or add to their ego. But that is me, I would rather recreate the wheel in an instance like that. Dave, I challenge you to show one snake that I have posted and said was my own that is in fact mine. You can not do it. Any snake I have posted that I have said is my own is my own. I'm tired of the attacks. Any fool can buy a "pure" corn and any fool can buy a hybrid. Anyone could buy a hundred snakes in a day and still no nothing about hybridizing or have any plan of attack. I am taking my time, doing research, etc. as I have said time and time again. I don't get into hybridizing projects without a plan or a direction. I see what is out there, what others have created and then I make a plan. I revise that plan as I learn more. I like to work with others and realize it is far easier to work with a wheel that has already been created than to simply recreate the wheel so to speak, but when a wheel has something missing sometimes it is necessary to go backwards. A good hybridizer knows that if he sees farther than the person before him it is only because they have stood on the backs of the giants that have been before him.
 
Old 02-08-2013, 10:49 AM   #99
Carpe Serpentis
I am not hiding the fact that I am in my research phase nor have I ever hidden this fact. I have said I am a hybridizer and I meant that. I have been hybridizing ever since my horticulture teacher, Mr. Bridges first taught me how in Elementary school. How did I have a horticulture teacher in Elementary school? I didn't my dad taught school and took me with him to school during the summer months for most of my formative years where I would hang out with Mr. Bridges learning. I was fascinated with hybridizing from a very young age. As I grew up I started learning from different hybridizers in person and researching much on my own. I taught myself to graft, do tissue culturing, make my own agar, etc. It is a hobby of mine and I'm in it because I love it. I don't care that many of you don't approve of hybridizing or that your feelings are hurt because I have posted a picture and you falsely assumed it was mine. In fact, when Dave questioned me about this in a private message I told him, no, its one of yours. You sold it to someone else or something to that effect. Really, I just can't believe that anyone would say that I posted it as my own when I've never taken credit for anyone else's work. If I cared enough to save a picture it was because it was somewhere I was either interested in going or someplace I wanted to avoid as it was already done.
 
Old 02-08-2013, 10:54 AM   #100
Nanci
I'm not into hybrids, unless they are stunningly beautiful. Like a jungle corn- meh. Once you start doing milksnake crosses, I get interested, but rather than try to create my own, I'd rather just spend the money and get a work of art from someone else. If I wanted to own one in the first place.
 

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