Ultra Mystery...

that's what i thought but i wasnt sure. thanks joe. this is why i leave the experimenting up to you guys....that and the fact i'm a broke college student with very little room

Originally Posted by huneymonkey

These just started hatching yesterday. To say the least, I was quite surprised. The male is from Rich which I purchased in 02. All of the babies look the same as this one. It almost appears to be Ultra Hypo, but they don't look quite the same as the ones Mike Shiver produced. I saw every single clutch that he produced from the Ultra Hypos, and while these are similar they are not quite the same. They look somewhere between standard and ultra hypo.

They may look like something between a Hypo and Ultra because they are a result of two morphs on the same allele and a new look we have not seen before. This is another Amel X Ultra Breeding that seems to indicate that Ultra is an allele to Amel.

Another possible reason for the results of the hatch would be that either the Opal had to be Homo for Ultra or Hypo and/or the Ultra was Homo for Hypo. This scenario seems unlikely, but the Ultra could easily be homo for Hypo and since Rich’s policy of possible hets, is to let the buyer find out what they carry, the Opal could be homo for Hypo. Again, this seems very unlikely.

Considering the number of clutches that we are starting to see that indicate that Ultra is and allele to Amel, it would seem that the evidence is leaning heavily in that direction. Each time, we or I can come up with other possible explanations, but come on, they can not all be explained away by possible hets for hypo or Ultra.

The chances that every breeding that we are seeing between Ultra and Amels that produce a dark eyed Amel or Hypo looking hatchling are all carrying hidden recessive genes, is becoming very unlikely.

Agreed, Joe. The odds are starting to get a little slim. The next step, methinks, is to breed ultras to as many amels as possible next year, and see if we get any contradictory evidence. Up for doing another breeding loan? I really only have one 'homozygous-for-amel' type female that has given me eggs in the past few years (partly because Amel morphs aren't exactly my favs... so I don't keep many). I'm now somewhat regretting selling my blizzard female... after all, she turned out to be het butter too... so I could've hatched some ultra ambers next year, assuming our conclusions are correct. (Such is life...)

-Kat

so I could've hatched some ultra ambers next year

Actually, assuming the hypothesis is true, what WOULD you call something that's homozygous for caramel and motley, and has the ultra/amel combination?

This is going to get confusing...

Perhaps we should propose a work-in-progress name for the het ultra/het amel combo, atleast to give us something to refer to until we can prove/disprove the hypothesis?

I'd like to throw out the possible name of pseudohypo... or maybe pseudo-ultra, in which case the above combination would be a pseudo-amber motley, or something.

-Kat

What is the correct term for these dark eyed Hypo/Amels if they are a result of the Ultra being on the same allele as Amel if they are au? Are they het for both Ultra and Amel? This would be confussing since double hets are usually on different alleles and normal looking How about half het for Ultra and amel? LOL There must be another term for it when they show a mixed phenotype between the two.

I don’t see how they could be Homo for Ultra and Amel. Are they homo utlra/amels? Is it possible for a corn to be double homo for Ultra and Amel if they are on the same allele? uuaa. How about triple homo uuaaau or what ever the au would be considered? This also doen’t seem possible if they are on the same allele.

Joe, you read my mind... what do you think of the pseudo- terminology?
-Kat

Originally Posted by Kat

Up for doing another breeding loan?

Sounds great! I would love to get some corns from Ultras. I happen to like Amels a great deal and have oodles of them. Perhaps we should get down and dirty and throw something else in the mix like lavender. An Opal would be a good prospect. ( I am totally jealous of Jason’s Opal X Ultra hatchlings, Jason want to trade some or sell any?) A Snow Motley would also be cool. All Deathy babies or half, depending on how it is going to work. How about a Butter Motley! That would be good! What would a Ultra/Amel Caramel look like or be called?

“Joe, you read my mind... what do you think of the pseudo- terminology?”
-Kat

It looks like we read each others mind again. Unless there is a correct term for it, I am up for anything, but the shorter the better. Anything would be better than saying they are a result of the Ultra and Amel being on the same allele over and over again.

Hmm.... how about Quasimels (Quasi-Amels). I think it sounds MUCH better than Quasipos.

quasi, adv. as if; in a manner; in a certain sense or to a certain degree; seemingly.

pseudo
adj : (often used in combination) not genuine but having the appearance of

Frankly, quasi-amels make them sound deformed (the Hunchsnake of Notre Dame ).

Wait...! I know. We'll call them Ultra-wannabes. (Yes, I'm joking on this one...)

-Kat

Originally Posted by ecreipeoj

What would a Ultra/Amel Caramel look like or be called?

Here are some pics of the ones I got from Mike from an Ultra Motley het Amel to an Ultra het Motley and Amel pairing.

Pic 1 Is the Butter motley which should answer Joes question (I am not sure but it seems we are climbing a very slippery slope if we explore this hypo being an allele to amel possiblity)
2 is the Ultra Hypo Motley (dark eyes)
3 is the Amel motley (red eyes)
4 Is an Amber het motley
5 is an Ultra hypo het Motley poss amel. Actually now that the eggs hatched, I don't believe she is het amel.