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General Chit-Chat Forum Discussion about general topics that are really off topic concerning corn snakes, or just about any old chit at all.

Just Needed to Vent
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Old 08-08-2006, 01:30 PM   #1
CMLReptiles
Just Needed to Vent

So any of you who were in chat last night know that I came home yesterday to find my new Columbian boa dead, with no previous signs that would cause concern. I'd had the animal for appx 3 weeks, and it had refused to eat in my care. The snake was active, very curious, nothing weird of it's defecate...just came home yesterday and he was curled around his water bowl, dead. Temps were fine, my garage is kept at appx 86. humidity was around 50%. Animal had fresh water when it didn't spill the bowl, which I was quick to replenish. I called the breeder to let them know, and his wife immediately offered a replacement, dumbfounded as to what happens. Well, today I wake up to an e-mail from her husband...

---Chris. Listen we have a small problem here and I'm not sure how to handle it.

Those Colombians have been here since birth and have been textbook animals from the start. No problems at all with any of them for 3 years. We send them to your place and something dies within a month. And this isn't the first time we've had animals at your place go South. In fact, I can count on one hand the animals we have sent out over the years that have had problems, while just about every animal we have sent your way has had issues.

I'm having a problem replacing yet another animal for you. Let me know what you think and have a great week---

Now, I've purchased 12 animals from them within the last 2 yrs, most of these animals costing at least $100, up to $550. of those 12, 3 have had problems. First was a little Aru Green Tree Python that had a continuing prolapse problem. I was more than happy to work with the animal, but rather than put me through the continued problems, they replaced it with an older animal and worked with it themselves...the animal eventually dying. There was a yellow phase amazon tree boa that had a weird tale bulge when I bought it, but we all assumed it just needed to take a nice big poop and everything would be fine. Well, after 2 refused meals, they again opted to have me bring the animal back for a replacement. The animal died shortly after returning it.

Now, I fail to see how either of those could possibly be my fault, as they were obviously an internal problem with the animals. This latest incident, with the boa...who knows. He was fine when I got home from work at 1am...I went to sleep, went to pick some stuff up around 1pm, came home and he was dead. So seriously, was that e-mail really necessary?
 
Old 08-08-2006, 01:41 PM   #2
danvega
Quote:
Originally Posted by CMLReptiles
Temps were fine, my garage is kept at appx 86. humidity was around 50%.
Sudden deaths are always one of things that you may never find out an answer to.

But, let's try to eliminate some factors:
What else do you keep in the garage? Car, chemicals, fertilizers, pest control?

Are you tracking max/min temps of the garage? Does the garage get hotter (with the hotspell that has been happening) in the day when you are away?
 
Old 08-08-2006, 02:03 PM   #3
Chris Olson
Does the seller provide some kind of written guarantee? If so, does your situation fall inside the requirements of that guarantee? If it does and he was uncomfortable guaranteeing the health of an animal for you given your history of trade and the three previous problemed animals, that is something he should have addressed before the sale.....not after something goes wrong. I don't know the seller or you, so I'm not trying to pass judgement either way, just table some things to consider.

Chris
 
Old 08-08-2006, 03:22 PM   #4
attackturtle
202-2499

Sorry for your loss. I hope you are able to work something out with the seller. 12 animals is a lot and I think it showed poor judgment on their part to send that email to you. Its one thing for them to decide not to replace the snake, thats their choice but If the prolapse was something you could not have caused, then they should not have even brought up past history in the email.
 
Old 08-08-2006, 03:26 PM   #5
attackturtle
please ignore the number in my previous post, I was makeing a note in a hurry and forgot to remove it
 
Old 08-08-2006, 03:43 PM   #6
CMLReptiles
The garage is only used for storage aside from the animals, and the animals have the right half of the garage. No pesticides or any of that stuff is kept in the garage/near the animals. I keep the garage cooled actually, and keep track of the min/max temps. nightime temps usually get around 78-79, with daytime temps being from 84-88.

They have a 48 hr guaruntee, same as most breeders. They have replaced 2 animals in the past, both times without my asking. They also offered this time, without my asking. If they had simply said "sorry, we can only try to help you thru this" with the past problems I would have completely understood. I was really more upset over the e-mail, I really felt insulted by it. If that is how they really feel, then why keep selling me animals and replacing animals? I'll admit I've messed up in the past, and I've lost animals because of that...but nearly everybody has done that at some point. When it happens, I admit I screwed up and really take it hard. This...I don't see it being anything anybody did wrong. I dont believe the animal was sick or mistreated by either of us. I have quite a few animals in my collection, and I rarely have problems/deaths. When I do have problems, I address them immediately and make sure to pay extra attention to the animal in question. I'm just....hurt is the only way I can put it.
 
Old 08-08-2006, 03:46 PM   #7
ghosthousecorns
As you are a repeat customer I think he should replace the snake and I hope he does, especially considering that his wife already said they would. If you kept that email it could be legally binding I believe.
This is JMO but I wouldn't keep buying from someone if they had sold me 2 animals that had problems or got sick.
 
Old 08-08-2006, 03:47 PM   #8
Taceas
I was in chat last night, but apparently missed this news. I'm sorry to hear of the death, Chris. =(

As for the e-mail, in my honest opinion, I think it was a bit heavy on the blaming a bit too soon. If you've bought 12 animals over the past two years, and 3 have had serious problems worthy enough to be replaced and then subsequently dying, I would almost say that constitutes something going wrong on their end. Whether it be breeding inferior stock that seem more prone to certain issues or just basically poor husbandry and upkeep prior to your purchasing.

Three weeks time is not nearly enough in my book to constitute something that you caused. The stress from being transported and set up in new confines is probably the straw that broke the camel's back on an already immunologically compromised snake.

Again, I don't know them or you all that well, but you seem capable enough to take care of GTP's adequately enough which shows that you aren't a complete moron in the care and husbandry of snakes that require more work than the average corn. Every one of the animals I've seen in your care are in clean enclosures and look remarkably well fed.

So I would say that based on your past history of this person's animals and now their hasty finger pointing, I would first:

1) Take the body to a vet for a proper necropsy, ASAP (remember, don't freeze)

2) Pending the results of the necropsy, I would ask for a partial refund (full refund, if you can get it) and take your business elsewhere.

Lastly, I hope you find a resolution to the problem. Who knows, maybe it is something in your home. I would think that would be rare considering the animals from other people seem to be thriving, but you just never know. It may be worth it to take fecals in from everyone and see the status of whats in there.

Best of luck to throttling him, err...getting your money back.

Edit after seeing your latest reply: A 48hr guarantee?? Most places have a 14-day or 30-day guarantee, most reputable places anyway.
 
Old 08-08-2006, 04:34 PM   #9
CMLReptiles
Thanks Misty. I actually don't know the exact policy, and don't feel like reading it. I understand how this hobby/business works, and a lot can happen in 3 weeks. I'm upset about the loss of the animal, but will get over. I don't believe a replacement is required from them, nor do I believe that the animals death was their fault.

I don't wanna go into too much detail, but I have messed up in the past. Several months ago I went through some hard times due to work...they had me working 60+ hrs/week 7 days/week, so the animals weren't cared for like they should. I lost a couple corns due to this, and quickly re-evaluated the situation. I've dropped my hrs at work down to 40 with 2 days off, and spend a couple hrs each day, normally at 1-2am when I get home, making sure everybody is doing good. I've made better arrangements for getting rodents, and have done everything in my power to more than make up for the past. As you said you see in my pictures Misty, all my other animals are very well fed, kept clean, and are doing great. I've started ordering new cages in anticipation of things getting bigger.

Sorry for the continued venting, but that e-mail really got to me. When people you would consider friends, who you reccomend 100% to other people sending you an e-mail like that just......
 
Old 08-08-2006, 06:00 PM   #10
Tula_Montage
Like a blade through your back Chris...
I don't doubt your ability to care for your animals, and I know when you know enough is enough.

Completely re-evaluate EVERYTHING and cross off a list of possible causes due to thier enviroment or mistakes on your part. I doubt this list will have more than 1 reason on it.

You seem to have a close relationship with these people and I think it rather rude what they are now saying. If they think you are incapable of looking after animals, don't buy from them. Or if they are that concerned why are they selling to you?

Don't wprry Chris, I know you will get things sorted out and move on... Crap that this happened
 

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