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The Cultivars (morphs)/Genetics Issues Discussions about genetics issues and/or the various cultivars for cornsnakes commercially available.

hybrids vs. nonhybrids
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Old 11-14-2008, 11:53 AM   #31
starsevol
It's just my view, but I think that by keeping corns in captivity, we may change the look of the animal, by way of color morphs, but captivity does not change the animal's species.
Hybrid breeding changes the animal's species.

One pet peeve of mine is breeders who sell hybrids and don't inform the buyer.

I am glad you are asking advice, and thinking things through. In the end, he is your animal, and you will breed him to whatever you wish! And I'm sure you will inform the buyers of the babies hybrid status. It's just that there are so many hybrids that "look" pure already....and who knows how honest the people who buy YOUR hybrid hatchlings will be? It's not your responsibility, after that point, but at least if you stick to breeding creams to creams, it's easier to tell what's what with your eyes, and not having to rely on the honesty of other people.

(Plus, if you get a cream mate for your cream, and long for something "different", it gives you the excuse to get 2 more snakes!)
 
Old 11-14-2008, 12:15 PM   #32
Bharmonika
Yes, very true on all counts. No doubt I will end up with several pet snakes. I blame it on my son, but truth be told, it's really me.
 
Old 11-22-2008, 06:25 PM   #33
pgr8dnlvr
don't know much, I know my oppinion is not necessarily that valuable to most people on the internet, but I absolutely think that it would be a good idea AT SOME POINT, to go ahead and go with the idea that we can agree to go with a new name for "domesticated" corns.

I know it takes hundreds, if not even thousands of years to truly "domesticate" an animals, but at some point we do manage to do it <well somewhat> look at dogs and cats. When did we decide on what the scientific names of those were different than wild specimans?

I'm sure the answer is that they were domesticated even before we began writing things down in a "proper" scientific manner. None the less it did happen.

When can we say we have "domesticated" a reptile species? At what timeline and in how many captive bred generations? When do we decide that we truly have "domesticated" a species? I think that it would be fair to say, as far as reptiles go, corns have got to be one of the species or groups that have been worked with the longest...

Maybe it would be a good idea to start a "revolution" ??! lol

Rebecca

ps- I am canadian and since this is an american board I think with exchange my opinion only comes up to a penny and a bit....
 
Old 11-22-2008, 09:44 PM   #34
tyflier
I'm not ready for all captive species to be called a different name taxonomically from wild caught ones. What happens when people start finding escaped morphs, calling it a wild caught and using the wc name...people already find morphs that have escaped. Giving them legitimacy that doesn't exist currently isn't going to improve the situation. Unscrupulous breeders will still breed the genes into the mix and do what they do. Then we will have TWO classifications which no one is happy with because of "polluted bloodlines".

Bharmonika-
There is nothing wrong with breeding your snake to a corn and getting cool creamsicle morphs. It's already being done, and has been done for a few years now. The improtant part is that you always inform your customers of the lineage, making them aware that they are intergrades, and not "pure". I think that's the best anyone can ask or hope for at this point...
 
Old 12-17-2008, 12:04 PM   #35
Midnght
Angry

Quote:
Originally Posted by starsevol View Post
One pet peeve of mine is breeders who sell hybrids and don't inform the buyer.
Exactly I don't have anything to add on genus etc.

But being a corn owner (and as of today finding out I won a hybrid Jungle Corn)

I'm not so happy a camper.

Yes The snake was labled Jungle Corn but there was no mention of it being a mixed hybrid likely with king snakes.

I very much wanted to try housing my corns together.
Having lost one likely do to size in the two corns.

I tried a second time with this Jungle corn and a corn of about the same size.
Well I'm pretty sure now he was eaten.
I've owned a king snake know they eat other snakes. had I been informed of the so called hybrid bit I never would have put another snake in with this Jungle.

I mean she's beautiful don't get me wrong. But she was bought for my wife as a pet and we liked her looks. Like many corns having varied names Ididn't think anything of it at the time.

The cost and empotions of a vanished snake due to eating doesn't make me feel any better today.

Hybrids nice but even someone who has owned corns can easily fall into lack of info. Is it my fault yeah a little, but the breeder should have told me he doesn't know me from adam and unless I spend hours discussing snakes wiht them I should be looked upon as an uninformed buyer.

Hybrid all you want but make sure you tell the end buyer. Hell even if they know tell em again anyway.

M
 
Old 12-17-2008, 12:06 PM   #36
Midnght
Exclamation

Beautiful but cannibalistic. Wish I had know.

This is Freida.
Jungle Corn Albino
 
Old 12-17-2008, 01:24 PM   #37
starsevol
Midnight, I'm so sorry you lost your corn.
But even 2 corns should never be housed together.
They are solitary animals, only coming together in nature to mate.
By forcing them to live together, you would be making them endure stress that they can never escape.
That stress can lead to health problems.
Also, if you have a male and a female, by co-habbing them you are allowing the male access 24/7 to a female that may not be old enough, or big enough to safely lay eggs. That can result in the death of the female.

Plus, even though it's rare, corns CAN be cannabals when co-habbed......
 
Old 12-17-2008, 01:32 PM   #38
tricksterpup
I see a few issues here but it is basically with your Husbandry.

Typically this is the reason why most of us keep are snakes separate from our others. It doesn't matter if its a king or a Corn, they will cannibalize if they get in the mood. You take your own risk when you house animals together. . Its not the snake breed per-se but the snake itself.

Also, is that a Gravel that you have your snake on or a Sand?
I highly recommend either using Aspen or Newspaper (or paper towel) as a bedding.
I recommend reading this thread on Husbandry and Basic Care FAQ .
 
Old 12-17-2008, 03:03 PM   #39
Midnght
Quote:
Originally Posted by starsevol View Post
Midnight, I'm so sorry you lost your corn.
But even 2 corns should never be housed together.
They are solitary animals, only coming together in nature to mate.
By forcing them to live together, you would be making them endure stress that they can never escape.
That stress can lead to health problems.
Also, if you have a male and a female, by co-habbing them you are allowing the male access 24/7 to a female that may not be old enough, or big enough to safely lay eggs. That can result in the death of the female.

Plus, even though it's rare, corns CAN be cannabals when co-habbed......
Oh yeah I learned this all the hard way.
I had only evered owned one snake for a long time my corn.
Then I came into a boa and a cali king I new you didn't put any other with the king and never considered doing so with the boa.
Then I got multiple corns and from things around the net it can be done it can not be.
Well I've lost two corns this way and they will NEVER ever live with another everyone gets their own big beautiful cage. I'm a one cage one snake advocate now for sure.

Hard lessons to learn but learned none the less and passed on to anyone I know who ever asks or wants to own a snake. }:>/
 
Old 12-17-2008, 03:04 PM   #40
Midnght
Quote:
Originally Posted by tricksterpup View Post
I see a few issues here but it is basically with your Husbandry.

Typically this is the reason why most of us keep are snakes separate from our others. It doesn't matter if its a king or a Corn, they will cannibalize if they get in the mood. You take your own risk when you house animals together. . Its not the snake breed per-se but the snake itself.

Also, is that a Gravel that you have your snake on or a Sand?
I highly recommend either using Aspen or Newspaper (or paper towel) as a bedding.
I recommend reading this thread on Husbandry and Basic Care FAQ .
It's ground english walnut shell.
Thanks for the info but I'm happy with my substrate and have not had any issues with it to date.
 

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