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another what would you get?
- Thread starter pdrau
- Start date
Jr Nimeskern
Snake lover for lifer
Im a little confused about the striped/motley because both are patterns that the snake has... but this is what I got with my Punnett Square...
...1/16 will show all traits striped/motley/snow
...1/16 will show striped/motley/anery...het for amel
...1/16 will show striped/motley/amel...het for anery
...1/16 will show striped/motley...het for snow
...1/16 will show striped/snow...het motley
...1/16 will show striped/anery...het motley/amel
...1/16 will show striped/amel...het motley/anery
...1/16 will show striped...het motley/snow
...1/8 will show snow...het striped/motley
...1/16 will show motley/anery...het striped/amel
...1/16 will show motley/amel...het striped/anery
...1/16 will show amel...het striped/motley/anery
...1/16 will show anery...het striped/motley/amel
...1/8 will show normal...het striped/motley/snow
I think thats right... if anyone else does a punnett can you verify if I did it correctly thanks I hope that anwsered your question...
...1/16 will show all traits striped/motley/snow
...1/16 will show striped/motley/anery...het for amel
...1/16 will show striped/motley/amel...het for anery
...1/16 will show striped/motley...het for snow
...1/16 will show striped/snow...het motley
...1/16 will show striped/anery...het motley/amel
...1/16 will show striped/amel...het motley/anery
...1/16 will show striped...het motley/snow
...1/8 will show snow...het striped/motley
...1/16 will show motley/anery...het striped/amel
...1/16 will show motley/amel...het striped/anery
...1/16 will show amel...het striped/motley/anery
...1/16 will show anery...het striped/motley/amel
...1/8 will show normal...het striped/motley/snow
I think thats right... if anyone else does a punnett can you verify if I did it correctly thanks I hope that anwsered your question...
I am confused on the het striped/motley part of your description of the female since it is only possible for a snake to be het for either striped or motley while still appearing normal. If the snake was het for both striped and motley, you would have a striped motley snake. When you say the male is striped/motley, do you mean it is a striped motley (carries one striped gene and one motley gene) or are you referring to a striped animal (both striped genes at the motley locus)?
If a = amel, b = anery, s = stripe, m = motley, A,B,N = wild type
and your snakes are the following:
Striped male het snow x Snow female het striped
(AaBbss x aabbNs)
then I would expect the results to be:
1/8 Normal het snow and striped
1/8 Anerythrism het amel and striped
1/8 Amelanism het anery and striped
1/8 Snow het striped
1/8 Striped het snow
1/8 Striped Anery het amel
1/8 Striped Amel het anery
1/8 Striped Snow
(see Pic 1 at the end)
If a = amel, b = anery, s = stripe, m = motley, A,B,N = wild type
and your snakes are the following:
Striped male het snow x Snow female het striped
(AaBbss x aabbNs)
then I would expect the results to be:
1/8 Normal het snow and striped
1/8 Anerythrism het amel and striped
1/8 Amelanism het anery and striped
1/8 Snow het striped
1/8 Striped het snow
1/8 Striped Anery het amel
1/8 Striped Amel het anery
1/8 Striped Snow
(see Pic 1 at the end)
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If your male is a striped motley and the female is snow het for striped
(AaBbsm x aabbNs)
then I would expect the results to be:
1/16 Normal het snow and striped
1/16 Normal het snow and motley
1/16 Anery het amel and striped
1/16 Anery het amel and motley
1/16 Amel het anery and striped
1/16 Amel het anery and motley
1/16 Snow het striped
1/16 Snow het motley
1/16 Striped het snow
1/16 Striped anery het amel
1/16 Striped amel het anery
1/16 Striped snow
1/16 Striped motley het snow
1/16 Striped motley anery het amel
1/16 Striped motley amel het anery
1/16 Striped motley snow
(See Pic 2 at end of post)
(You can reverse striped for motley and vice versa if the female is het for motley in the second example.)
(AaBbsm x aabbNs)
then I would expect the results to be:
1/16 Normal het snow and striped
1/16 Normal het snow and motley
1/16 Anery het amel and striped
1/16 Anery het amel and motley
1/16 Amel het anery and striped
1/16 Amel het anery and motley
1/16 Snow het striped
1/16 Snow het motley
1/16 Striped het snow
1/16 Striped anery het amel
1/16 Striped amel het anery
1/16 Striped snow
1/16 Striped motley het snow
1/16 Striped motley anery het amel
1/16 Striped motley amel het anery
1/16 Striped motley snow
(See Pic 2 at end of post)
(You can reverse striped for motley and vice versa if the female is het for motley in the second example.)
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Supposedly the male is striped and motley and het for snow and the female is snow and het for striped and motley. Not my snakes. Someone elses. My argument was that from this crossing. If indeed the animals were what he says they are. No normals would result. All progency would be homozygous for some trait.
Jr Nimeskern
Snake lover for lifer
Hurley!!!
HEY HURLEY!!! what site did you get that punnett square from??? I would really like to know... I always do mine out by hand... thanks...
HEY PDRAU!!! hmmm if someone did have those kind of snakes... which would be weird to see... then you would get 1/8 normals which would be het for everything! but you wont have any normals het for nothing...
HEY HURLEY!!! what site did you get that punnett square from??? I would really like to know... I always do mine out by hand... thanks...
HEY PDRAU!!! hmmm if someone did have those kind of snakes... which would be weird to see... then you would get 1/8 normals which would be het for everything! but you wont have any normals het for nothing...
That's how I got into this whole discussion. Here is the guy's site. http://www.angelfire.com/pop2/multihet/products.htm Not an advertisement. Just so you can see where all this began.
Darin Chappell
Very Senior Hillbilly
IFit is true that a snake cannot be het for both Stipped and Motley while being phenotypicaly normal (I'm not doubting it, I just don't know for certain), then the female in question would have to be a stipped motley animal. If that is the case, then all of the offspring would be stripped motley's and the rest of their genteics would be the same as if you crossed a snow with a het snow. If the snakes are what they are supposed to be, the results would be (according to the genetics wizard I use):
25% Homozygous Motley, Homozygous Stripped, Het. Amel, Het. Anery,
25% Homozygous Motley, Homozygous Stripped, Het. Amel, Homozygous Anery,
25% Homozygous Motley, Homozygous Stripped, Homozygous Amel, Het. Anery,
25% Homozygous Motley, Homozygous Stripped, Homozygous Amel, Homozygous Anery
It is entirely possible that I misunderstood something along the way through the description, but I'm sure someone will let me know of my mistake quickly enough!
Darin
25% Homozygous Motley, Homozygous Stripped, Het. Amel, Het. Anery,
25% Homozygous Motley, Homozygous Stripped, Het. Amel, Homozygous Anery,
25% Homozygous Motley, Homozygous Stripped, Homozygous Amel, Het. Anery,
25% Homozygous Motley, Homozygous Stripped, Homozygous Amel, Homozygous Anery
It is entirely possible that I misunderstood something along the way through the description, but I'm sure someone will let me know of my mistake quickly enough!
Darin
From what I understand a corn can be both striped and motley, striped, or motley.
This is what Mick's Cornsnake Progency Predictor predicts from
Male Striped and Motley het for snow
homozygous striped
homozygous motley
het anerythristic
het amelanistic
X
Female Snow het for Striped and Motley
homozygous anerythristic
homozygous amelanistic
het striped
het motley
12.50% Snow, Striped Motley
12.50% Striped Motley, Anerythristic, Het for Amel
12.50% Striped Motley, Amelanistic, Het for Anery
12.50% Striped Motley, Het for Snow
6.25% Snow, Motley
6.25% Anerythristic, Motley, Het for Amel
6.25% Amelanistic, Motley, Het for Anery
6.25% Motley, Het for Snow
6.25% Snow, Striped
6.25% Anerythristic, Striped, Het for Amel
6.25% Amelanistic, Striped, Het for Anery
6.25% Striped, Het for Snow
Oh doh! I found a problem with this...it thinks the female is Snow, Striped Motley instead of Snow het for striped and motley.
This is what Mick's Cornsnake Progency Predictor predicts from
Male Striped and Motley het for snow
homozygous striped
homozygous motley
het anerythristic
het amelanistic
X
Female Snow het for Striped and Motley
homozygous anerythristic
homozygous amelanistic
het striped
het motley
12.50% Snow, Striped Motley
12.50% Striped Motley, Anerythristic, Het for Amel
12.50% Striped Motley, Amelanistic, Het for Anery
12.50% Striped Motley, Het for Snow
6.25% Snow, Motley
6.25% Anerythristic, Motley, Het for Amel
6.25% Amelanistic, Motley, Het for Anery
6.25% Motley, Het for Snow
6.25% Snow, Striped
6.25% Anerythristic, Striped, Het for Amel
6.25% Amelanistic, Striped, Het for Anery
6.25% Striped, Het for Snow
Oh doh! I found a problem with this...it thinks the female is Snow, Striped Motley instead of Snow het for striped and motley.
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Darin Chappell
Very Senior Hillbilly
pdrau,
You're right. An animal can be striped motley, striped, or motley. However, the question that was raised (by whom I cannot recall) and for which I cannot provide an answer is "Can an animal be HET for BOTH stipped and motley without showing any pattern mutation?
If the pattern locus has an allele for motley and wild type, it is het for motley but looks wild. The sme holds true if it is het for striped. However, if the pattern locus is filled with alleles for motley AND stripped, then the animal would have to be a striped motley phenotypically. Unless of course I'm all wet here!
Nevertheless, it was this consideration that led me to post the percentages as I did above. IF those assumptions are incorrect, the outcomes would obviously be wildly different than I suggested.
Later -- Darin
You're right. An animal can be striped motley, striped, or motley. However, the question that was raised (by whom I cannot recall) and for which I cannot provide an answer is "Can an animal be HET for BOTH stipped and motley without showing any pattern mutation?
If the pattern locus has an allele for motley and wild type, it is het for motley but looks wild. The sme holds true if it is het for striped. However, if the pattern locus is filled with alleles for motley AND stripped, then the animal would have to be a striped motley phenotypically. Unless of course I'm all wet here!
Nevertheless, it was this consideration that led me to post the percentages as I did above. IF those assumptions are incorrect, the outcomes would obviously be wildly different than I suggested.
Later -- Darin
Darin,
This is the supposed scenario. You can view the proposed parents by viewing the site I posted above.
The male is striped and motley and het for snow and the female is snow and supposedly het for striped and motley.
They aren't my snakes, but like I said I am still curious as to what the results should be.
Maybe by looking at the parents pics the whole thing will make a bit of sense.
I think we're all just a bunch of genetics wannabes! HEHE!
Peter
This is the supposed scenario. You can view the proposed parents by viewing the site I posted above.
The male is striped and motley and het for snow and the female is snow and supposedly het for striped and motley.
They aren't my snakes, but like I said I am still curious as to what the results should be.
Maybe by looking at the parents pics the whole thing will make a bit of sense.
I think we're all just a bunch of genetics wannabes! HEHE!
Peter
The way I understand striped and motley, they are two different types of mutation for the same locus on a pair of chromosomes. Therefore, at this locus on each of the paired alleles, you can have either the normal gene (N), the striped gene (s), or the motley gene (m). With these three, the possible combos for this locus on paired alleles are:
NN = normal
Ns or sN = normal het striped
Nm or mN= normal het motley
ss = homo striped
mm = homo motley
ms or sm = motley striped
(het for each, but phenotypically motley striped since both genes are mutated and there is no normal gene overriding them).
If a snake is het for both, it should show pattern mutation somewhere between motley and striped. If you have an offspring from a motley/striped father, then the offspring either received a striped gene OR a motley gene from the father, but not both. If the offspring from this father is a motley/striped individual, than momma gave it the other gene to complete the set.
At least that is the way I have come to understand it.
Oh, and the punnett squares are from Excel, I have one rigged so I just have to type in mom and dad's genotypes and it calculates it out for me. (I like to look at the pretty color combos,. ) It tends to make more sense to me to see the pattern rather than staring at lists of 1.25% this and 0.0004756% that.
As always, jmho.
I love genetics.
NN = normal
Ns or sN = normal het striped
Nm or mN= normal het motley
ss = homo striped
mm = homo motley
ms or sm = motley striped
(het for each, but phenotypically motley striped since both genes are mutated and there is no normal gene overriding them).
If a snake is het for both, it should show pattern mutation somewhere between motley and striped. If you have an offspring from a motley/striped father, then the offspring either received a striped gene OR a motley gene from the father, but not both. If the offspring from this father is a motley/striped individual, than momma gave it the other gene to complete the set.
At least that is the way I have come to understand it.
Oh, and the punnett squares are from Excel, I have one rigged so I just have to type in mom and dad's genotypes and it calculates it out for me. (I like to look at the pretty color combos,
. ) It tends to make more sense to me to see the pattern rather than staring at lists of 1.25% this and 0.0004756% that. As always, jmho.
I love genetics.
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Jr Nimeskern
Snake lover for lifer
WHAT SITE DID YOU GET THOSE CHARTS FROM??? I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW...THANK YOU...IM NOT MAD JUST WONDERING HOW YOU GOT THOSE CHARTS... THANKS AGAIN
Those charts
The charts were just something I made up in Excel, like I said, I have a spreadsheet rigged to produce the square from the genotype of the crosses I type in. I color them in myself because it's purty thataway.
They aren't up on any website (except this one), I just tapped them out quick to answer this question.
Did I say I thought you were mad? If it was implied, I apologize and blame it on my difficulty expressing emotion in a post. I guess sometimes emotions get implied where they weren't meant to be? Anyways, this is me grinning!
No hard feeling here.
The charts were just something I made up in Excel, like I said, I have a spreadsheet rigged to produce the square from the genotype of the crosses I type in. I color them in myself because it's purty thataway.
They aren't up on any website (except this one), I just tapped them out quick to answer this question.
Did I say I thought you were mad? If it was implied, I apologize and blame it on my difficulty expressing emotion in a post.
I guess sometimes emotions get implied where they weren't meant to be? Anyways, this is me grinning!No hard feeling here.
Jr Nimeskern
Snake lover for lifer
thanks for the help Hurley... I didnt think you were mad at me I just didnt want you to imply that I was mad because I wrote in all caps and put in !!! so... just wanted to express that I wasnt mad just so you wouldnt get mad thinking I was mad...???... wow confusing...
thanks once again
thanks once again
