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Discussions about this site How is this site doing? Any suggestions to make? This is the forum to talk about this website in general.

Moderator(s) needed here....
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Old 02-11-2007, 01:12 AM   #91
Rich Z
Well, I'm not really sure this will fix that problem at all. It may just wind up changing one problem into another. Some people are thinking that trolls were the cause of the problems. Others are thinking it was something else, I guess. Personally, I'm not sure, as the REACTIONS to trolls are what really make trolls successful at reaching their goals.

I had hoped that I could let this forum evolve on it's own without my direct involvement with it's direction. Maybe ALL forums just reach a point of potential self destruction no matter what you do........ Question is, is it accidental or by design from external influences? Certainly I have seen enough incidences of malicious attacks by trolls to know I can't rule out any possibilities. To what end, though? Probably just because they CAN.....
 
Old 02-11-2007, 07:40 AM   #92
CornCrazy
Unfortunatley, you may be right. There are a lot of malicious people in this world. Think of all of the people who create viruses that damage who knows how many computers each year. While I am sure there are some that are created with a specific purpose in mind, other are created for the fun of it. There are so many other horrific things happening in this world. I guess it would be dreaming to think that bad things won't happen on the net.
 
Old 02-11-2007, 10:39 AM   #93
ghosthousecorns
http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=46670
It seems like every time I click on a post with a lot of replies it's one like this one. It feels like people are just so adamant about making their point and being right that they don't realize what it does to the site. I don't think there were really any trolls in this thread but it left a bad taste in my mouth just the same. I wish more people just knew when to walk away. like Kathy Love and Susan. (I'm adding them to my list of good potential mods)
 
Old 02-11-2007, 12:18 PM   #94
Roy Munson
Quote:
Originally Posted by shed'n my skin
http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=46670
It seems like every time I click on a post with a lot of replies it's one like this one. It feels like people are just so adamant about making their point and being right that they don't realize what it does to the site. I don't think there were really any trolls in this thread but it left a bad taste in my mouth just the same. I wish more people just knew when to walk away. like Kathy Love and Susan. (I'm adding them to my list of good potential mods)
For those who don't feel like trudging through that thread (and I can't blame you), I'll give you a summary. The O.P. was on vacation and received word from the person taking care of his snakes that his under-aged female had laid eggs. The female had been cohabbed with a male. The O.P. wasn't going to be home for a week, but wanted advice to pass on to the person taking care of the snakes. Some members gave incubation advice (though no one knew if these eggs were fertile, least of all the O.P.), then mike17l offered this advice:
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike17l
you could always place the eggs in a brown paper bag, and place the bag in a plastic trash bag, and then place that in a dumpster.
He was immediately jumped on. Some people jumped on him because they felt that his advice was inhumane, and others because they felt that he didn't use sufficiently sensitive language to present his opinion. In my opinion, which I'm not only entitled to have but to express as well, both of these views were B.S.. Some agreed with Mike and me, and others did not. Some resorted to name calling, of which I was guilty at one point too (but if you see it in context, you may agree that it wasn't the most egregious breach of debate etiquette). Then Kathy comes back and praises the discussion in general, while condemning the name calling, and bows out of the public discussion. I agreed with her 100%. The last post I saw was Susan's, which I can't categorize as merely "walking away". As is her right, she expressed the opinion she is entitled to and then said good-bye. From that perspective, my last post in that thread was a "walk away" too.

What I'm having trouble with here is the concept that people shouldn't be adamant about making their points on an open discussion board. Argument and debate are legitimate forms of discussion. If discussion is hurting this board, and people don't want discussions to be held here, then why don't we just shut down the posting capabilities and make this an archive? God knows that 99.5% of all possible topics have already been discussed.

And let's remember that this is a community. I saw my friend mike17l attacked for semantics and content, and I defended him. In my "real world" community I would have done the same for a friend whom I thought was being treated unfairly. Another thing I'm having trouble with is the concept that members should word their opinions in such a way that they don't offend ANYONE's sensibilities-- from the coldly objective to the hyper-sensitive. How the heck do you do that? Maybe we should institute hyper-courteous pre-formatted replies, and we can fill them in like mad libs. Or better yet, we could appoint a huge "post modification" team, whose job it would be to make sure that all posts conform to a strict standard so that no one ever feels that their little piggies are in danger of being stepped upon. I nominate me for the team. I'll start with Mike's post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by mike17l as modified by Roy Munson
May I humbly, and with all due respect suggest another option to your most excellent and honorable person? Gently and lovingly place each egg in its own little paper bag. On each bag compose a little poem of love and deep respect for the tiny life that may be nestled inside. With utmost respect and care, place each little bag into a larger bag while uttering a few words of compassion and respect to the contents. Drive that bag to a secluded spot of beauty and peace where the little cell clusters that may or may not reside in those eggs may be afforded the opportunity to again join the benevolent ALL. If you would rather attempt to incubate the eggs, please don't bother researching the methods on your own. I know this is a trying time for you, so please PM me, and I will gently and tactfully hand you any and all answers that you may need.

Peace and Love,
Mike
 
Old 02-11-2007, 01:29 PM   #95
desertanimal
Hee hee hee. That made me laugh. I agree with you 100%, Dean.

I actually considered posting in that thread asking if anyone had ever made a snake egg omelet. 1) I was genuinely curious and 2) it would be a way not to waste the eggs but not to incubate them either if the person was unprepared for that. If that happened to me, I'd probably make scrambled snake eggs, take a teeny taste, and then feed them to the dogs, who'd eat them if I didn't like them. But though I was genuinely interested in this idea, I didn't float it in that thread because that thread wasn't very welcoming of ideas. The O.P. only wanted to hear certain ideas and certain reponses, and so did many of the later posters.

The way Mike was jumped on was pretty ridiculous. He wasn't talking about smashing kittens' heads and dumping them in a dumpster. He was suggesting not incubating eggs. All of us who buy eggs from "happy chickens" probably do the same, though I don't actually recall if free-ranging chickens actually have physical access to a rooster.

It's interesting that people get jumped on for jumping on lazy, practically unintelligible posters, or for people who refuse good advice and really only post to hear what they want to hear, but it's OK to jump on people for being insensitive? Doesn't make sense. Of course, I think it's ok to express your opinion strongly and articulately about anything you want, but I could be in the minority in that feeling. Oh, and I draw a distinction between expressing your opinion strongly and articulately and name-calling. The former can sometimes include the latter, but the latter doesn't include the former, and that's the problem with it.
 
Old 02-11-2007, 01:37 PM   #96
ghosthousecorns
My beef with that thread was that I couldn't care less who was right or wrong. I saw valid points made by both sides. It was the name calling (I recall A-hole) by both sides. In a perfect world we would all express our opinions and everything would just be hunky dory and Rich wouldn't be asking for a mod in the first place.
Kathy Love and Susan both made positive posts which expressed the way I felt pretty well and my main reason for bringing the thread up was because their attitude was exemplary of what I'd like to see in a moderator.
 
Old 02-11-2007, 01:57 PM   #97
TandJ
Dean mentioned the following..

Quote:
In my "real world" community I would have done the same for a friend whom I thought was being treated unfairly. Another thing I'm having trouble with is the concept that members should word their opinions in such a way that they don't offend ANYONE's sensibilities-- from the coldly objective to the hyper-sensitive. How the heck do you do that?
Hey welcome to the PC culture, this not only happens here Dean, but is very relavent in the real world.. Problem is most people are to damn self centred as opposed to being centred..

I have said it before and I will say it again, one of the must reads is Dale Carnigie's " How to win friends and Influence People".. We also have to know when enough is enough, leaving us with the only option of just walking away.

Regards.... Tim of T and J
 
Old 02-11-2007, 02:13 PM   #98
Susan
Just asking, Dean...have you gone back to the beginning of that thread and read it again down to mike171's "offensive" response? I don't think it's his response, as such, that was the problem, for me anyway. I found the sort of off-topic nature of it more the problem, as well as it's wording in that instance, plus all the nastiness that resulted from it further along in the thread. Had the O.P. asked about all the options available about what to do with the eggs, or had mike171 gave some sort of an "intro" to his remark, perhaps it would have sat better with me. The O.P. already knew that the eggs may or may not be viable, but he was still hoping. That remark basically told the O.P. that he shouldn't even bother hoping, and that he's an idiot for even thinking it.
 
Old 02-11-2007, 02:18 PM   #99
Roy Munson
Quote:
Originally Posted by shed'n my skin
My beef with that thread was that I couldn't care less who was right or wrong. I saw valid points made by both sides. It was the name calling (I recall A-hole) by both sides. In a perfect world we would all express our opinions and everything would just be hunky dory and Rich wouldn't be asking for a mod in the first place.
Kathy Love and Susan both made positive posts which expressed the way I felt pretty well and my main reason for bringing the thread up was because their attitude was exemplary of what I'd like to see in a moderator.
I'm guilty as charged, Jen. But I can't really say that I feel all that regretful. Here's the exchange:

Quote:
Originally Posted by PosterX
I think Mike's comment was uncalled for and harsh, he came on here asking for help and some jerkoff tells him to toss them in the trash. I mean seriously how is that constructive?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roy
I gave you conciliatory rep for your bread and cheese joke. I wish I could take it back. You're just a confrontational a-hole. Calling another poster a "jerkoff" for presenting opinions that are 100x more informed and consistent than your own is uncalled for. You should stick to regurging info in the husbandry sub-forum.
Reason I probably SHOULDN'T be a mod #234: I'm not always against name-calling. Sometimes the shoe fits, and the poster's already wearing it. Do I pretend it's not there when my friends and I are being kicked with it? Maybe profanity, implied or spelled out, isn't really such a good thing. I feel the slightest twinge of regret over that word choice of mine. Maybe I should have just written confrontational hypocrite. I mean, that poster obviously IS one in that thread. But I don't know, I'd still have been calling him a name. I see lots of name-calling around here, but without even the slightest link to the profane, these names fly under the radar. But I take notice when confrontational hypocrites call my well-meaning friends "jerkoffs". People who conduct themselves this way are-- all together now-- A-HOLES!

Another point about profanity: some profane words/phrases are more or less offensive than others, and this can differ relative to time, place, and company. Of course, this hierarchy is subjective, and each of us probably has a different idea of where and when lines should be drawn. You could reasonably assert that the word PosterX fully spelled out is a synonym of the word I implied. I find his word much more inflammatory, but maybe some members here don't see a difference, and I don't have a problem with that. When I was a kid, "this sucks", or "you're a scumbag" would have been considered profane (if you don't know what a scumbag really is, go look it up), but today they're generally accepted as non-profanity. But I will not accept that I was as "out-of-line" as PosterX, as some have implied by lumping all of the "name calling" together.

And if anyone wants to call ME an a-hole for any of the statements I've made, I won't mind.
 
Old 02-11-2007, 02:27 PM   #100
desertanimal
Quote:
Originally Posted by Susan
I found the sort of off-topic nature of it more the problem, as well as it's wording in that instance, plus all the nastiness that resulted from it further along in the thread. Had the O.P. asked about all the options available about what to do with the eggs, or had mike171 gave some sort of an "intro" to his remark, perhaps it would have sat better with me. The O.P. already knew that the eggs may or may not be viable, but he was still hoping. That remark basically told the O.P. that he shouldn't even bother hoping, and that he's an idiot for even thinking it.
1) The nastiness that ensued after Mike's post cannot be blamed on Mike.
2) Mike's post did NOT say that the O.P. shouldn't even bother hoping, and that he's an idiot for even thinking it. This is what you chose to INFER from Mike's post, and it's really not fair putting what you infer from what someone says on that person. Your inferences could be wrong. Inferences often are. It's always best to ask someone directly if they meant to imply what you have inferred, just to be clear.

To make my point, I inferred from Mike's apparently calculated and completely emotionless "tone" that he was making the point that in that particular situation, there were other, possibly more rational choices that were being overlooked. The tone of his post made me think long and hard about what the most rational choice really was, instead of getting carried away in the emotion of needing to "save" the eggs. Since this is how I took his post, his tone was spot-on, because it was part of the point he was making.

BUT, I don't really know if that's the point he was making with his tone, and neither does any of us. And it's certainly not fair to Mike to get upset with him for what we think his tone implied if we don't check to see if we were right. I agree--things got out of hand in that thread, but none of that can be rightly pinned on Mike's original post.
 

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