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The Cultivars (morphs)/Genetics Issues Discussions about genetics issues and/or the various cultivars for cornsnakes commercially available.

Sex-linked pattern aberrancies?
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Old 07-19-2020, 03:15 PM   #1
Shiari
Sex-linked pattern aberrancies?

Has anyone else had something like this happen?

The male is my Bansidhe, and this is his first proper sired clutch. The female is Torandre, my ghost girl who has given me numerous babies and never showed anything like this before. It'll be super interesting to see if this pops up next year too with the other females I'm planning on pairing him to.

But basically, the vast majority of the females (7 out of 8) are showing moderate to extreme pattern modifications. Whereas the males have only 2 out of 6 showing even mild changes.

These are the females:

"unaffected" female-


other females-













 
Old 07-19-2020, 03:20 PM   #2
Shiari
The males

"affected" males first-





unaffected males-







 
Old 07-19-2020, 08:39 PM   #3
SnakeCreations
Fascinating! I've certainly seen sex-linked color variation, but not pattern. I look forward to your results.

-Tonya
 
Old 07-19-2020, 08:41 PM   #4
Shiari
I'll be keeping back three of these, specifically the second 'affected' male I posted, and the first two 'affected' females. End tally was 10 females, 2 of which are normal patterned and 7 males, of which 5 are normal patterned.
 
Old 07-19-2020, 09:59 PM   #5
hypnoctopus
Sorry that this is off topic, but did you not end up getting any amel based babies in this clutch?
 
Old 07-19-2020, 10:20 PM   #6
Shiari
Quote:
Originally Posted by hypnoctopus View Post
Sorry that this is off topic, but did you not end up getting any amel based babies in this clutch?
that's correct, which surprised me a great deal.... So, that leaves me with a- cruddy odds (I've had one snow in a clutch of 16 eggs before of anery het amel to this same ghost) or b- the two eggs from two years ago were an attempt at parthenogenesis from the female and would explain a lot.

Next year this male is getting paired to a sulfur motley-stripe and that should prove out if he is het amel or not for sure. He's also going to my charcoal het amel ph hypo.
 
Old 07-20-2020, 10:08 AM   #7
hypnoctopus
So now that you've mentioned this, I've been keeping my eye open for correlation between gender and pattern. I don't know this breeder, but I just happened to see their sale post and all of their non motley females have aberrant patterns, whereas none of the males do. https://www.facebook.com/19538170015...8864235690138/

Not a huge sample size, but I do think you're on to something.
 
Old 07-20-2020, 12:48 PM   #8
Shiari
It'll be interesting to see if this was just the world's strangest fluke, or if it is indeed genetic. Next year should prove that out when I breed him to several different females. If his daughters show up wonky again, even if just at a 50% rate, I'm probably on to something, and it's probably Z-linked.
 
Old 09-17-2020, 08:04 PM   #9
Paleosmith
Thanks for sharing Shiari! Definitely a fascinating topic and one that I too and very interested to investigate in the near future. However, it should be noted that the "unaffected males" pictured above do in fact all show some degree of pattern aberration. The pattern aberrations in the "unaffected males" are certainly subtle in comparison with the others in this clutch and even though there are no classic zigzagged saddles in those males, there are some aberrant lines that link saddles. Those same type of "line-linked saddles" are pictured in the photos of "affected" snakes in this clutch and those "linked saddles" are also common in other Aztec/Zigzag individuals as well (e.g., all 3 Aztecs in my collection possess this characteristic as well). So, given that there are both males and females in this clutch that display pattern aberrations, and given that there are males and females with distinct pattern aberrations in this clutch, this does not appear to be a case of a sex-linked trait. While I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news, I don't personally think this means that figuring out the polygenetic nature of the Aztec/Zigzag mutation is any less interesting, and if any of you out there have also produced progeny with these mutations and would be willing to share your stories (i.e., info on the parents genetics, health, and age, incubation temps, problems, egg position relative to other eggs... anything that might affect pattern), I'm sure that we all could learn something interesting and hopefully have some fun in the process -Paleosmith
 
Old 09-17-2020, 09:19 PM   #10
Shiari
Yeah, the males are so minor I wasn't considering it as 'affected' as compared to the females, in part because any snake can have an aberrant saddle or two. One thing that several of them *did* have, which their father shared, is a little 'oval' mark in a saddle. I found it interesting that that passed down.

Also, the fact that any affected patterning in the males is so minor does still show a degree of sex-linking as something is suppressing that is only really present in the males.
 

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