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The Cultivars (morphs)/Genetics Issues Discussions about genetics issues and/or the various cultivars for cornsnakes commercially available.

is it possible for the motley gene to partially express ??
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Old 04-09-2017, 08:10 AM   #1
sheldon
is it possible for the motley gene to partially express ??

hi guys my first post here i have two babies from a clutch this year sadly only the two babies hatched and they both have partial motley markings with the under belly also partially with out checkers is it possible that this is a partially expressed gene or just an anomalous pattern
 
Old 04-09-2017, 09:22 AM   #2
sheldon
how do you post photos here ??
 
Old 04-11-2017, 06:30 AM   #3
sheldon
this is the snake i am talking about ventral and dorsal view
while im new to breeding corn snakes i have a good bit of knowledge and have been working with snakes for 20 years so im not a newbie just find this odd as i thought recessive expression was only possible as a complete expression
 
Old 04-11-2017, 01:42 PM   #4
Dragonling
I wondered if this was the same as the facebook post. I've heard of possible "het markers" for motley before and as I mentioned on FB I have possibly observed this as well. Later tonight I'll try and get photos of all of my poss het motley babies from two clutches. I *had* sold half of them, but the buyer has not replied to my messages so fortunately I still have them for comparisons. I haven't looked at their markings closely in a while, but at the time I checked them out, I remember noticing roughly half seemed to have reduced checkering under their necks and some semblance of striping along the side of the neck.

Obviously if it can be proven out, it will show that motley is in fact incomplete dominant rather than recessive.
 
Old 04-12-2017, 01:11 AM   #5
sheldon
yeah its the same post its so hard for me to get real information down here in south africa and i dont know many reall breeders so i put it out in a few places!! i am leaning towards multiple gene expression my self rather than incomplete dominance im sure that would of been proven by now wouldent it ?? it just seems strange that it would be showing up only now !
 
Old 04-12-2017, 01:54 AM   #6
sheldon
i see i didnt under stand incomplete dom properly yes i think you are right it could be incomplete dominance how would we go about proving this out i think its some thing i would love to spend time on
 
Old 04-13-2017, 05:53 AM   #7
ECWcorn
Hey guys, I see were coming over here for answers now. I've messaged two veterans in the hobby since we brought this earlier. Neither of them had really noticed before. One of them asked right off the bat if mine animals in question had lavender or sunkissed in them ? In my case its yes. My male who sired all three clutches of my hold backs in a Motley\Plasma. Apparently the two genes affect the motley gene a lot doing all kinds of weird things. I. E. Checkering the ventrals of motlies heavily. Wiping out the pattern on them as well. Interesting I thought.
I've also noticed on some of mine the reduction , absence of black on the motley pattern but returning on the blotched pattern.
Here's a list of the pairings I did last year. Motley\Plasma het hypo sired all three. 1-anery het hypo, 2-sunkissed het motley\stripe, 3-hypo het lavender.
The majority of my little odd balls came from pairing one with 4\5 holdbacks. I have 2\5 from number 2. , 1\2 out of number 3. These are my holdbacks. So I don't know about the rest of the clutch.
Even the het motley sunkiss produced some of these. That litter came out spot on with the odds. 3\4's came out motley\stripe, 1\4 normals. The normals all being het motley. From that clutch I kept three motley\stripe, and two normals both of which have this weird thing. The other two clutches have no known motley in the mothers has far as I know.
Anyway just thought I'd add to the madness.😕 I might load some pics up later but I have trouble here on this site. Have a good one and I'm sure well talk some more.
 
Old 04-13-2017, 07:00 AM   #8
Dragonling
I lost track of the FB post, but here is one of the possibly het motley babies that seems to show "markers" if such exist. I do think they're just polygenetic effects though.

http://imgur.com/a/FKg5R
 
Old 04-14-2017, 01:01 AM   #9
sheldon
hi guys yeah i think this is interesting and i personaly find it cool that the possibility for a motley corn with strong colours and not loosing the black is awesome even if it is a polygenetic trait and can only be held by line breeding i still think it could produce unusual results if we are aware of fine details my male is an okeetees with no known hets i have recently purchased two babies from the same breeder and both have a stripe going down the neck which points to a line bred trait !!

Dragonling my okeetees male has the same patterning as your photo very cool!!

EWCcorns i dont have any of the genes you mentioned in my snakes that i know of the female is a caramel motley that is supposed to be hypo but i have serious doubts abouit that maybe she is het hypo time will tell !! i bought two supposedly sunkissed corns a while back they will breed this year both are motley so i think i will breed the male to my caramel motley and the female to my okkeetees and see the results

if you guys have any ideas further please add in im starting to fget a handle on this genetics arround corns and i still think this could be a fun breeding project EWC i dont know that im going to find any pure strain corns here in South Africa i think they have all been bred from such a small pool that there are going to be hidden hets all over the pace
 
Old 06-22-2017, 02:48 AM   #10
sheldon
this is a little update on my odd little guy
19397054_10212896435787232_4593480178615040823_n.jpg

19424306_10212896435587227_4152360978986240877_n.jpg
 

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