$10 Burms- get yours cheap!

I have never, nor will I ever, have the desire to own a large Boid.

Aside from the enormous enclosure one would need (if housed CORRECTLY), the danger is simply not worth the risk.

I liken it to keeping Hots. I love snakes for many reasons - one large reason being the way they feel as they move around in my hands. I can't handle hots, neither can I handle a 14 foot snake that has the ability to suffocate me.

I am against the govt. sticking their noses where it doesn't belong, but IF legislation were to go into effect for ONLY those snakes that get too much for one person to safely handle, I would be for it.

But to lump Balls in with African Rocks, Anacondas, Burms, and Retics isn't beyond the stupidity of the govt. And who knows if Colubrids would be next?

Originally Posted by kathylove

Scientists and people who know what they are talking about...

I WISH! Unfortunately, at worst, it is politicians bought with money from animal rights activists, or at best, politicians who do whatever will get the most votes from the most people. And the scientists who ARE involved often have never actually kept live herps, although they may be great taxonomists or field workers. And their main concern is often how they will get grant money, and who will fund their next research project. So don't be TOO hopeful that people who know what they're doing will be making the laws.

But there is no point in making their "ban the nasty snake" job any easier than it already is by breeders and dealers doing things that make great, sensationalistic headlines.

The whole thing about selling to kids is more of a legal issue. There are plenty of uneducated adults out there. But once they are 18, they have responsibilities to fend for themselves that minors do not. So it is much more important to protect kids from their own stupidity (or lack of knowledge) than it is for adults. I have no doubt that there are many kids who are more mature than many adults. But they are still minors, and need more protection under the law.

Nice to see you back, David!

That is very true Kathy, and as much as the political leaders are just making the laws for their own monetary benifit, breeders need to be responsible for not putting ANY snake, into the hands of ANYONE who may not be able to care for the animal. Nice to see you too, Kathy

Originally Posted by kathylove

Scientists and people who know what they are talking about...

I WISH! Unfortunately, at worst, it is politicians bought with money from animal rights activists, or at best, politicians who do whatever will get the most votes from the most people. And the scientists who ARE involved often have never actually kept live herps, although they may be great taxonomists or field workers. And their main concern is often how they will get grant money, and who will fund their next research project. So don't be TOO hopeful that people who know what they're doing will be making the laws.

Too true...but there are still some scientists that are herp lovers and do not think immediate ban....

One of the reasons I stopped breeding and selling burms is I had too many angry people when I refused a sale because I wasn't comfortable selling to just anyone. Now I get people (vendors) mad at me when I do educational presentations and bring out my large burms and discourage people from purchasing them....never seems to go over well with the vendors...that and my discouraging of WC animals.....Hmmm...who would have thought?

Jeff, do you still keep burms? Or any other giants?

Originally Posted by snakemaster24

Jeff, do you still keep burms? Or any other giants?

Short answer: http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=102952

Originally Posted by snakemaster24

Because the issue isn't age, its experience. I keep some odd ball snakes all of which I do great with. But I know people who can't keep a cornsnake alive that are twice my age! So it all has to do with each individual and their ability to care for the animal.

Originally Posted by snakemaster24

Scientists and people who know what they are talking about. Reptile owners like you and I also need to take a stand.

Originally Posted by kathylove

Scientists and people who know what they are talking about...

I WISH! Unfortunately, at worst, it is politicians bought with money from animal rights activists, or at best, politicians who do whatever will get the most votes from the most people. And the scientists who ARE involved often have never actually kept live herps, although they may be great taxonomists or field workers.... The whole thing about selling to kids is more of a legal issue. There are plenty of uneducated adults out there. But once they are 18, they have responsibilities to fend for themselves that minors do not. So it is much more important to protect kids from their own stupidity (or lack of knowledge) than it is for adults. I have no doubt that there are many kids who are more mature than many adults. But they are still minors, and need more protection under the law.

I am not going to bore you with the same old lecture David, but age really does have a lot to do with this. As a teenager, your brain is not as developed as an adults- indeed it won't stop growing until you're about 23. And one of the last parts to develop is the part that assesses risk. Teenagers are biologically predisposed to take risks that adults would not. To do things without stopping to think about the potential dangers involved. If there is no adult in their life to provide guidance during this potentially dangerous time, they can get into a world of trouble, and not just with big snakes!

Am I saying that all the adults who bought $10 burms today are going to be wonderful keepers? Heck no! But like Kathy said, at least adults are legally considered to be responsible for their own behaviors and decisions. Selling to children and teens is a whole other level of irresponsibility, and it rests on the seller.

In any event, that was just an example of a bad situation that I could see arising. No matter the age of the person buying, if they are unprepared for the animals eventual size it's a bad, bad thing... be they 15 or 55.

Also, like Kathy said, just because someone is a scientist doesn't mean they know what they are talking about OR will make sound decisions. I can also tell you that MANY of the students in the wildlife program at VT while I was completing my fisheries degree were very much embroiled in animal rights. Those people are probably now working on wildlife policy at state and federal levels. These are the people who are making the decisions to "ban" dangerous "wild animals."

If those vendors were thinking of their own good in the LONG TERM, then they would THANK you for pointing out the difficulties of dealing with really large snakes. What good is a $20 sale if it comes back to bite you in the rear? If the vendor talked the novice customer into a more appropriate (for most - of course Burms might be perfect for a select few) small boid or colubrid, then the happy customer might be back for a mate in a few months or years, instead of leaving the hobby after dealing with the unwanted snake later.

Unfortunately, many only see the immediately sale, and nothing else matters.

Lauren, I hate to disagree with you because, your experience far surpasses mine BUT even though we don't stop developing until we are 23, is it not the SELLERS job to then, question and ask for I.D.? I mean if you were selling Retics and I walked up and handed you the money would you say, OK heres your new baby retic! No, it is your job to use your brain and say OK, this is a kid. I'm going to ask if
A) He has parents permission
B) Knows what he is doing
C) Has proper husbandry for the animals lifetime.

There is obviously a great flaw in the way that people sell large reptiles/hots. And there needs to be some uprising in the reptile community to fix it so that the gov't doesn't have to get involved!

"Too true...but there are still some scientists that are herp lovers and do not think immediate ban..."

Yes, a few, thank goodness! And maybe you will eventually be one of those professors imbuing those future scientists with a proper attitude, lol! We need more of that!

I personally have pointed people to other directions when I thought that even a dwarf boa wouldn't be a fit pet for them.
Some people forget that these are animals rather than furniture... and once they consider them as furniture, it's just a matter of getting rid of the cheap merchandise.
Venomous snakes also cost very little when compared to non-venomous morphs... and in some places they are very easy to get... it's not a snake thing, it's an animal thing- wild and potentially deadly animals are being sold irresponsibly world-wide.