Culling 'side product' hatchlings

As a follow up of a thread that got locked but where I thought an interesting discussion was going on, I put up a poll here. My request is, to choose the statement that comes closest to your opinion on culling hatchlings that do not fit the breeders standards to be worked with or to be sold. Of course motivations are welcome, discussion too but please try to keep it civil so this thread won't be locked and people won't be banned

Thanks all for your input!

You forgot the poll...

And will this concern just hybrid clutches, or any pairing, even of pure/same species? And will we be limited to snakes or is any species allowed?

And thanks for bring this up again. It's a good topic of discussion!

Nope, some options were too long....

Snakes only by the way...

I have only been a snake owner for a little over a month but am already planning on buying more snakes and hopefully attempting to breed them next season.

The one thing i have thought about many times is what to do if i am ever in the position of having 'defect' hatchlings. I am not sure if i could cull them without feeling really bad about it. Obviously if i decide i could not bring myself to cull off any defect babies then i would make the decision not to begin breeding.

Thanks for the poll, will be interesting to see the results in a few days.

I, personally think that anyone that is getting involved in breeding of snakes should at least be aware of and willing to accept that some offspring will simply not make it. Under these circumstances, it is my opinion that sickly, deformed, chronically pained, or non-feeders that WANT to starve to death *should* be euthanized in order to limit the amount of pain and misery that would accompany those afflictions. I don't think it is responsible to get involved in the breeding of animals without at least recognizing the potential for disasterous results from inbreeding or bad practices, as well as random and genetically inherited defects that can't reasonably be predicted, without having a "plan of action" in place should you find yourself in the situation.

With that said...I also firmly believe that each person will need to draw those lines for themselves as to what would be considered reasonable culling and what wouldn't. I don't feel it is my place, nor anyone else's, for that matter, to tell another breeder what they should and shouldn't be doing with offspring they produce, so long as responsiblity, honesty, and integrity in the business and the hobby is maintained.

That means that while I personally wouldn't cull offspring because they don't meet a specific "look" criteria, I won't fault anyone that draws the line for themselves in that particular sandbox...it is, ultimately, their choice...

Originally Posted by tyflier

I, personally think that anyone that is getting involved in breeding of snakes should at least be aware of and willing to accept that some offspring will simply not make it. Under these circumstances, it is my opinion that sickly, deformed, chronically pained, or non-feeders that WANT to starve to death *should* be euthanized in order to limit the amount of pain and misery that would accompany those afflictions. I don't think it is responsible to get involved in the breeding of animals without at least recognizing the potential for disasterous results from inbreeding or bad practices, as well as random and genetically inherited defects that can't reasonably be predicted, without having a "plan of action" in place should you find yourself in the situation.

With that said...I also firmly believe that each person will need to draw those lines for themselves as to what would be considered reasonable culling and what wouldn't. I don't feel it is my place, nor anyone else's, for that matter, to tell another breeder what they should and shouldn't be doing with offspring they produce, so long as responsiblity, honesty, and integrity in the business and the hobby is maintained.

That means that while I personally wouldn't cull offspring because they don't meet a specific "look" criteria, I won't fault anyone that draws the line for themselves in that particular sandbox...it is, ultimately, their choice...

So you see no difference in ending a miserable life and ending a life worth living because it was born in the wrong clutch?

What an individual breeder decides to keep or cull from their own clutches is their own personal business. In the example of jungle corns, if the breeder only wanted to perpetuate the look of a hybrid that showed the characteristics of both the kingsnake and the cornsnake, culling those that too closely resembled either species, that is just fine by me. Doing so in hopes to prevent the possible mistaken identity of these hatchlings and therefore possibly "contaminating" the pure species is a very good thought, IMO. It may not be 100% effective, but it's got better potential than many of the current practices.

A comparison to a dog breeder culling puppies that don't fit a breed standard has been made. An example of this that I am personally familiar is with "lemon" colored German Short-haired Pointers. Way back when that breed was being created, a then well-known pointer breed was used in the mix, and that breed could produce light tan-colored pups. However, over time, that color was not allowed by the breed standard of the GSHP. But as occasionally happens, you get throw-backs. These puppies are culled by the breeder to prevent them from potentially reproducing and perpetuating that color. Yes, the breeder could sell it as a pet-quality dog with the stipulation of it being neutered/spayed so it can't reproduce. But how do you guarantee that happening? You could have a written contract, but unless you spend the time and effort to keep track of that pup and verify the owner does as the contract says, it's just a piece of paper. OK, you have it neutered/spayed yourself. Now you have invested more time and money in a pet-quality dog. How are you going to be reimbursed for that time and money? Raise the price of the dog? But who is going to spend even more money on a neutered/spayed pet-quality dog that doesn't fit the breed standard when they could get a breedable dog that does fit the breed standard for an equal price? And with snakes, you don't even have the viable option of getting them neutered/spayed.

And now lets use pure cornsnakes in an example. I'm a middle-of-the-road breeder, currently capable of producing about 200-250 hatchlings a year. I currently can produce a wide range of morphs, but most of them are middle- to lower-end morphs. Since I am the mother of 2 elementary school children and have a full-time job to help support my family, the time I have available to raise 200+ hatchlings, and sell them, is limited. In previous years, I was able to wholesale them all. Unfortunately, I no longer have that outlet and I have had to sell them myself. I am unable to attend shows because of my job and family so have had to depend upon the internet for sales. I had a difficult time trying to juggle my work-load when I had the maximum number of hatchlings still in my possession. I am seriously considering culling many of the least sellable hatchlings in order to not only reduce my work-load as well as my expense in simply raising those hatchlings, but to also be able to provide more time and effort in the remaining hatchlings. There are more than enough normal, amel and anery cornsnakes on the market. My 50 - 75 will not be missed, and my kingsnakes will be well-fed as a bonus.

Originally Posted by Blutengel

So you see no difference in ending a miserable life and ending a life worth living because it was born in the wrong clutch?

What guarantee do you have that any particular hatchling will have a life worth living? And what defines a life worth living?

Originally Posted by Susan

What guarantee do you have that any particular hatchling will have a life worth living?

For this and the post above, I so wish I could rep you Susan