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Tessera Club!! Post Yours Too!!
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Old 02-17-2011, 08:01 PM   #91
gelshark
If it was a homozygous Tessera than you would get 100% Tesseras in the F1
If it was a heterozygous Tessera than you would get 50% Tesseras in the F1
those assume that you are breeding it to a non Tessera

now if you bred 2 heterozygous Tesseras to eachother than you should get 75% Tesseras in the F1 (25% would be homozygous Tesseras and 50% would be heterozygous Tesseras and 25% non Tessera)

clear as mud?
 
Old 02-17-2011, 08:11 PM   #92
zorro
Quote:
Originally Posted by SickPyth7 View Post
I'm sorry Zorro but to me its not weird, only recessive trait bred to recessive trait can produce all of the same offspring. It does not work like that with Tessera if it is dominant or co-dominant and anything like ball pythons that would mean you can breed a Tessera X Tessera and get Normals, Tesseras, and if one exists a Super Tessera.

Maybe its me but does the definition of genetics for Corns different than Balls? If so... I have to re-learn it all over again, cause Ball pythons are pretty simple to understand to me.
I know that you have been around balls and see a lot more dominate traits, I'm just not used to it yet.
John
 
Old 02-17-2011, 08:13 PM   #93
xyla
Yeah thats right.
As far as I know, when a ballpython morph is domnant you also say it is het and you get 50% from the dominant morph and 50% classics.
THere is a site where this is explained good, but I dunno which. I will search it tomorrow.
 
Old 02-17-2011, 08:18 PM   #94
ecreipeoj
Quote:
Originally Posted by SickPyth7 View Post
Joe I'm completely confused. I come from Ball Python knowledge, and as you may know there are a ton of co-dominant / dominant morphs. So how can a corn be het Tessera if it is dominant or co-dominant? I have never seen or heard of anyone explaining the inter workings of a Spider ball, pastel ball, etc... by saying thats a het Spider or thats a het pastel? You cannot because they are not het for those traits, they are dominant. I know I don't fully understand genetics thats why I'm asking.
Justin,
To be honest with you, I tried like hell at one time to get on Boa and Python forums and really explain what they were really seeing genetically, but a few years ago, they had many of the morphs identified, but really didn’t have a clue how they were getting them.

The egos in the Boa and Python worlds were too big for me, and they ran me off, and I left willingly. They are slowly but surely figuring it out. I haven’t looked in for quite some time now. I got tired of breeding rabbits and chickens, and needing a warehouse for my Boids anyway, so I switched completely to Corns. You can apply Corn Snake SOLUTIONS we have discovered to the genetics of Boas and Pythons, and they work.

Super, and T+ are Boa and Python World Jargon, that are just HYPE, for Homo dominant mutants and Hypo mutants, plain and simple. I actually do not have a problem with Super, with my Boa background, but I know what it means. It doesn’t mean they are Super Special, they are just a homo co-dominant Mutant, with a different het phenotype, just like our Diffused gene, well sometimes.

Lets use Salmon Boas as an example for Het Salmon. You have never heard anybody talk this way, because most people don’t know the basics, but some of us lowly Corn Snake Breeders are getting pretty good at it. If you breed a Salmon (het Salmon, one Salmon gene and one Normal gene. They are actually het Salmon, Normals, just like Ultramels are Het Ultra and Amel, like Striped Motleys are het Striped and Motley and now Strawberry/Hypos are het Hypo/Straw. Het only means that the genes are different at that locus. Homo means they are the same at that locus.

A Corn Snake het Amel is Het Amel and Normal at the Amel locus. A Salmon boa het Amel, can be Het Salmon and Amel or Homo Salmon and het Amel. As far as I can tell, a het Salmon and homo Salmon look the like the same Salmon phenotype, because it is a dominant and not co-dominant. Phenotype means the way a morph looks. Genotype means its genetic make up.

If you get a hold of a copy of the Cornsnake Morph Guide, and read it enough all of a sudden, it will click in your head and you will have it. It is written for the beginner and the advanced, so his approach may seem odd, but how do you explain simple Corn Snake genetics to those who are just learning. I think he has been trying different approaches and is far better at explaining it than I am.
 
Old 02-18-2011, 12:59 AM   #95
smallet
Quote:
Originally Posted by SickPyth7 View Post
There is always a possible chance for a super. Granted the Spider Ball Python never proved a Super, the Woma Ball Python proved some type of Super/Hidden Gene call "pearl".

When I produce girls I will be breeding Tessera X Tessera for as long as I own Tesseras. You never know what could happen. Never rule it out, maybe no supers can come of it but that doesn't mean something else can't.

I love this thread
It should be noted when talking to Don that tessera x tessera usually results in a high mortality rate in the clutch. Supporting the paint horse theory mentioned above.
 
Old 02-18-2011, 04:14 AM   #96
ecreipeoj
Quote:
Originally Posted by smallet View Post
It should be noted when talking to Don that tessera x tessera usually results in a high mortality rate in the clutch. Supporting the paint horse theory mentioned above.
It is not a big deal IF homo Tessera proves to be fatal. The Spotted gene I work with in Miniature Donkeys is the same as the fatal Spotted/Paint gene in horses so I have experience.

IF Tessera proves to be fatal, when homo, you have two choices. Only breed Tessera to Normal or Non-Tessera Morphs and expect 50% of the offspring to be Tessera. Fatality is not an issue.

Breed Tessera X Tessera, and loose ¼ production, but produce 66%Tesseras and 33% Normals. In the long run, Tessera X Tessera breedings would average 66% Tessera, while Tessera X Normals would be the same old 50%.

The decision to avoid the fatal gene, or loose some of your offspring to it, would be a personal choice. Both sides of the political debate will be split like all other political debates 50/50.
 
Old 02-18-2011, 06:42 AM   #97
Em Wright
Ooo! It's my turn!

I just got this little girl yesterday! Meet Pug!







I got her from John at Colorado Corns.
 
Old 02-18-2011, 06:45 AM   #98
chris68
I'm in :*)

I think I got her sister Em...Will post some pics when she settles in...
 
Old 02-18-2011, 06:46 AM   #99
Em Wright
That's neat, Chris!! I love knowing people who have siblings to my snakes, it's very snazzy! I'm looking forward to those pics!
 
Old 02-18-2011, 12:40 PM   #100
SODERBERGD
What DON said that . . . ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by smallet View Post
It should be noted when talking to Don that tessera x tessera usually results in a high mortality rate in the clutch. Supporting the paint horse theory mentioned above.
Uhhhhmmm, Don who?

If you mean Don SODERBERG, I don't know how or why you'd say that, since I bred Tessera to Tessera only one time in my life (last year)? This is one of the most genetically successful mutations I've ever worked with. Of the 14 eggs I hatched in that sole pairing of Tessera to Tessera, all but one were perfectly healthy. Only one other egg never hatched, but it was discolored the day it was laid. How is that high mortality? If you saw a citation of this falsehood somewhere, please, link us. If it was a rumor you heard somewhere, I urge you to consider not repeating things until you verify their authenticity. If I did say this in a forum (uhhh, Don seldom posts ANYwhere), I'll check into the asylum for a brain transplant. It's not outside the realm of possibility for me to forget I said something, but in so much as I've only hatched one clutch of eggs from Tessera X Tessera, I don't know anyone qualified to make such a statement -- and as new as Tesseras are -- I don't know anyone that could make such a statement.

I know that KJ bred Tessera to Tessera for the first time in 2009. I don't know what the mortality rate was, but it was just one clutch of eggs. He surely repeated that pairing in 2010, but I'm unaware of his results (or if he did more than one Tessera x Tessera pairing). Let's say he did. How could anyone draw a conclusion such as the one you cited - from seeing only three pairings? What if incubation was deficient, etc.? And in case it falsely appears like I'm desperate to cover-up being busted in a lie (certainly not the case here), why would I make a statement only two years and one clutch of eggs into a new mutation, by essentially saying, "please, don't buy Tesseras cuz the gene mutation is lethal"? I don't think anyone could make that statement until they have hatched at least 20 clutches of eggs. There cannot be more than three or four clutches ever hatched in the entire world. If high mortality is observed after 20 clutches, I'll be the first to stand up and make such a declaration.

Sorry for the sharp response, but ya touched a nerve with this. If you can find a post where I said such a thing, I'm outta here. I post on forums less than ten times a year (and that is the aggregate between all three main corn chat forums). You could paste all of a year's postings from me on one sheet of paper. It should not be difficult to find all ten of those (probably more like five) to show us where I said that.

Again, I submit that whether fertility was bad or good, nobody can make such a declaration from hatching just one clutch of eggs - in ANY mutation project.

Don
 

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