President May be in Trouble

Originally Posted by Nova_C

Man, I wish Wikipedia had been around when I was in 5th grade. The internet wasn't even available where I grew up until I was a teenager. And the bleeding edge modems were 14.4 kbit. :P

At this point, out of the two presidential candidates, Obama is the best bet to get gay marriage legalized across the US.

That's laughable at best. Obama took his damn sweet time saying he was for gay marriage, and I doubt it was sincere!

Originally Posted by Nova_C

Anyway, if there's no danger of regression, great, but the states that are refusing to allow gay marriage need to be brought to the 21st century. Some times individual rights need to trump states' rights and this is a case where the federal government should make gay marriage legal across the board.

That's a matter of opinion. The people voted. They said no same-sex marriage in NC. The law that is in effect is individual's rights at work. Just because you don't agree doesn't mean that it is wrong.

Originally Posted by vliberatore

That's a matter of opinion. The people voted. They said no same-sex marriage in NC. The law that is in effect is individual's rights at work. Just because you don't agree doesn't mean that it is wrong.

It sure can.

A lot of people didn't think Blacks should have equal rights either, and there was certainly a lot of opposition to women's suffrage.

Sometimes the people are wrong and change needs to be shoved down their throats. This is one of those times.

So if the government is hired by the people, and the majority of people disagree with something, they should shove it down the majorities throat because they know they're right and the minority is wrong? Gee sounds pleasent.

Do we remember why the Civil War was started? Over states rights. I highly doubt any President is going to over turn states decisions that allow gay marriage. The marriage might not be seen legal federally but will be legal within the state.

I believe the government should stay out of marriage and what defines a legal marriage. I am all for gay marriage they should have the same rights as everyone else. Same benefits as well.

Originally Posted by beautifullywild77

I believe the government should stay out of marriage and what defines a legal marriage. I am all for gay marriage they should have the same rights as everyone else. Same benefits as well.

It'd be great if the government would stay out of peoples' marriage rights, but they're not because the government is right now not letting people of the same sex get married.

Just like the government wasn't letting blacks marry whites.

So there's a movement to get the government out and right now Obama has publicly voiced support for this movement. No other president has done that, so it's a step. If it's an illusion, well, since that announcement, support for gay marriage has increased, especially in black communities. So it's a win.

Carinata, most things shouldn't be forced. But when a group of people are oppressing others, then yes, we should stop them whether they like it or not, especially when they are using the bludgeon of law to oppress.

Originally Posted by Nova_C

It'd be great if the government would stay out of peoples' marriage rights, but they're not because the government is right now not letting people of the same sex get married.

Just like the government wasn't letting blacks marry whites.

So there's a movement to get the government out and right now Obama has publicly voiced support for this movement. No other president has done that, so it's a step. If it's an illusion, well, since that announcement, support for gay marriage has increased, especially in black communities. So it's a win.

Carinata, most things shouldn't be forced. But when a group of people are oppressing others, then yes, we should stop them whether they like it or not, especially when they are using the bludgeon of law to oppress.

So Obama's a great guy because he said he supports gay marriage, but it's not sincere? That makes no sense at all. You say the government needs to keep out, but you also suggest they shove what's "right" down peoples throat. Majority rules, but minorities need protection. I personally think gays should be allowed to have civil unions, but they shouldn't be called marriages.

Originally Posted by Nova_C

I don't think the ad hominem attack was necessary.

I apologize.

Originally Posted by Nova_C

It just sounded like you were being critical of Obama for saying that there shouldn't be any laws against gay marriage. If you were agreeing with him, well, okay then.

I was being critical but not for what he said but why he said it. I believe he is simply USING the LGBT community to meet his ends and in reality has little concern for their situation. The fedgov does not have the constitutional authority to control marriage. Thus it would take a constitutional amendment. So for Obama it's a vote buy nothing more.

Originally Posted by Nova_C

Because the vast majority of the Republican party is a lot more interested in getting into your bedrooms and deciding what birth control is okay for you to use and who you should be marrying than the Democrats, and certainly than Obama is.

I thought it was Obama and the super majority that forced birth control and abortion drug options on everyone through the unconstitutional Obamacare.

Originally Posted by Nova_C

But I guess I just misunderstood. Glad to see at least you can find common ground with Obama on this one.

I don't share common ground with him. I share common ground with friends here and offline that struggle for this equality. I don't share common ground with Obama using their fight as a poker chip to get votes!

Originally Posted by Nova_C

Man, I wish Wikipedia had been around when I was in 5th grade. The internet wasn't even available where I grew up until I was a teenager. And the bleeding edge modems were 14.4 kbit. :P

At this point, out of the two presidential candidates, Obama is the best bet to get gay marriage legalized across the US.

lol when I was in 5th grade home computers were extremely uncommon let alone the intertubes. Heck our schools didn't even have them.

Originally Posted by Nova_C

... Sometimes the people are wrong and change needs to be shoved down their throats. This is one of those times.

Wrong! Sure people are wrong sometimes but this country was founded to escape a gov that shoved its rules down the people's throat. What is needed is less control.

Originally Posted by Nova_C

It'd be great if the government would stay out of peoples' marriage rights, but they're not because the government is right now not letting people of the same sex get married.

Just like the government wasn't letting blacks marry whites.

So there's a movement to get the government out and right now Obama has publicly voiced support for this movement. No other president has done that, so it's a step. If it's an illusion, well, since that announcement, support for gay marriage has increased, especially in black communities. So it's a win.

Carinata, most things shouldn't be forced. But when a group of people are oppressing others, then yes, we should stop them whether they like it or not, especially when they are using the bludgeon of law to oppress.

We finally agree on something. Less oppressive gov, not more gov control! A step in the right direction for you Nova.

Originally Posted by tsst

We finally agree on something. Less oppressive gov, not more gov control! A step in the right direction for you Nova.

Believe it or not, I am all for smaller government and less governmental interference in people's private lives. Unfortunately people like Carinata exist, who want to tell gay couples that they aren't allowed to get married because marriage is, for some reason, not for them. So we have to step up and create a law to protect the rights of the few from the tyranny of the many.

In my opinion, that is the sole responsibility of government. If the tyranny of the majority did not exist, then government would be completely unnecessary. But it does.

And so we make do.