Controversial Discussion: Direction of This Site

Personally, I like this site the way it is, most of the time. I don't like some of the personal vendettas, but I just tend to stay away from most of the threads that will bring those particular people together. I also have put people who were interrupting my enjoyment of this site on ignore, which has worked for me.

There isn't much that can be done, some people just need to grow up, and some need to treat people with respect.

Roy Munson said:

Is this place how you want it to be?

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Pretty close.

Roy Munson said:

What (if anything) could be done to improve it?

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Clean up the R and NC-17 language. WTF means WTF regardless of how you want to candy coat it and pretend stupidity.

Roy Munson said:

Is the moderation too strict, or too lenient?

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Inconsistent. For example, Snakemaster and his threads/comments are locked down pretty religiously, but there is another participant at this site that interjects their . . . hubris . . . into many different threads and those threads are destroyed while that personality moves on to another thread to continue their work. There is no humility when that . . . personality . . . is "put in its place" by the forum in general as historically happened around here relatively effectively. Inconsistent.

D80

ghosthousecorns said:

Personally I have been posting less, though I still read a lot of the threads, TBH I have been tending to go check out the "other" place when I actually want to read about corn snakes or find pictures of morphs and stuff. There is a lot of non corn snake related threads here :shrugs:
Not that some of that stuff isn't interesting as well, but since it's a corn snake site the focus could be a lot more on corn snakes
I hate the political bickering a lot so if I could change one thing it would be take the politics elsewhere.

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^^^^^^
Ditto that!

dwyn127 said:

^^^^^^
Ditto that!

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You say Ditto that! Danny, but don't you think people are already posting as much about cornsnakes as they can? What is there to talk about? New morphs? Won't be any of those till spring. Photo Gallery? So take some pictures! make the thread more interesting by commentating on your snakes. Right now, people can post their quint homo whatever, and maybe five people will comment on it. I made the discovery that the developmental stages of snakes and the mice they eat match up. I did a new product review today. What else, that isn't the same old how-to, is there? OTOH, there is everything else that isn't cornsnakes! Boas, pythons, dragons, spiders, dogs, kids, whatever. Just to mention the critters. I love cornsnakes the most of all the snakes in the world, but how many exciting new things can you say about them? I'm just saying...Maybe if people would _participate_ more in "cornsnake" threads, there might _be_ more cornsnake threads.

I agree that this seems to be the time of year when boredom takes its toll. There's no breeding at this point, there's less money for buying this winter, so people get into things other than cornsnakes.

I only read the threads that appeal to me. I avoid politics, I avoid certain members' threads, I don't pay attention to all the personal vendettas that seem to be going on. I do wish people would stay more on topic in threads. A little humor isn't a bad thing, but I for one get irritated when my own thread goes haywire because people aren't focused on the topic I started. I started it for a reason. I'm also not one to run to the mods unless its a pretty blatant issue. I frankly think that we as adults should be able to PM another member with whom we have an issue so that it can be resolved between members without involving the mods. I try to stick to my own business.

I wouldn't mind the mods being more strict, I just wish individuals would keep a closer watch on themselves.

Here’s and idea. Go over to KS.com. First of all pick any forum and start a new thread that says CS.com is a great place. If you come back tomorrow you will find that post has been deleted. If they don’t like what you say, you disappear. Then go to the cornsnake forum and post a question. “Help my snake won’t eat”. The last post on the cornsnake forum was three days ago, I just checked. They have really strict moderators there and they stay on topic. They don’t have a dyk and they don’t have a general chitchat. And they don’t have me. Sorry Rich, that last statement will start a stampede to the dark side.

I don't have any problems as yet. I think the sandbox I grew up in was a tad rougher than this one.

The interesting thing to me, thank you for asking, is what people consider serious enough to warrant action by Mods.

That's it.

Me likey.

To make it even better: Stop the personal attacks and curb the language and then things will be just dandy.

I think Jeff puts it well. And I don't give a flying you know what about the language.

I LIKE the political threads as a general rule. I learn things. I share things I know that I think are important. But it's a little challenging to get anything out of them when there are old quotations and re-hashing of old arguments (that I don't know about) whizzing around all over the place.

It’s not hard to be polite and respectful to others so I say bring the iron fist if you feel you need to.
The only suggestion I have is to split the New Posts function into 3. One for cornsnake areas, non-cornsnake areas and personal forums. That way people who want to look at only cornsnake stuff can easily do so. I tend to avoid the non-cornsnake stuff so I have to either weed through the posts like a mailbox full of spam or go to each cornsnake section individually. But hey, life is all about convenience right?

Personally I have no problems. There has been a lot of bickering lately, but I just ignore those threads.

I like the site. I tend to just skim over most sections though. I try to stay out of topics that are going down hill myself. **note sometimes I can't help myself****

I like cs.com because of the general atmosphere and forum dynamics. It's not solely a corn snake forum to me, it's a place I can go to talk to like minded people ie other exotic pet owners. It's also a place where I have formed some solid friendships over the years, and you just can't knock that.

I don't have the time to get into heated political debates. I'm dangerous with a fiery opinion, so I tend to just shut up these days.

I don't have the time to enjoy cs as much as I used to, so when I come on I don't want to see repetitive crap such as David with another attention seeking thread or 20 "omgz my corn sanke wont eat" threads.

I like diversity, and cs offers that. As far as a community of very different people go, I think the dynamics and interaction is pretty much stable and settled most of the time. The majority of members are mature enough to voice an opinion, step back and let someone else voice there's. It's about accepting people as individuals and giving people the right to diversity. I think cs as a community does that extremely well, which is a real rarity on the interwebs.

If people think cs is no longer about corn snakes, well they need to make the effort to bring it back on track. The forum does not create it's self, it's the users input which determines the direction of the whole group. Collections change, people change, morphs change, EVERYTHING changes.... And I think the forum has a healthy balance between corn snakes and everything else in between to match every individuals preferences, likes and dislikes. There are sub forums for specific groups of enthusiasts etc. If you don't like whats in sub forums, don't visit them.... If you don't like trolls - don't reply to their threads, if you don't like heated debate - don't fuel the fire. It's all very logical really...

I like the site the way it is. The fighting can get out of hand...but every board I've seen that was worth spending time reading has that problem. There are a couple of people on here that I REALLY dislike...so I don't respond to their posts or read threads they start. Easy.

Thanks for the replies and opinions. I appreciate them all. I especially appreciate Rich's clarification of certain policy items.

For the record, I really, really like it here.

I have been to places that over moderate; where the atmosphere was simply too "sunshines, roses, and censorship".

I have been to places that under moderate. I had a woman "stalk" me and criticize me constantly, to which the admin (a friend of mine!) would say, "Let's try to stop this little feud... ", pretending it was some mutual thing, rather than punish another established member for a clear violation of the rules. Pitiful.

I think of all places, this strikes the best balance that I have discovered yet. I feel both free to speak my mind and get a little hot under the collar, but still know that this is a "safe" environment where trolls and the like will be dealt with. What would I like to see change? Like others have said, less tolerance for the petty personal attacks. I understand that when threads get heated, things get a little personal. I'm not about to be the pot calling the kettle black here, as I'm FAR from innocent in that respect. However, what I think is inexcusable is the carrying over of personal vendettas into threads where it need not even be an issue. Especially when you're actually interested in the legitimate topic of the thread...

I can appreciate the difficulties of being a moderator - the frivolous post reports, the gray areas of rule violation, etc. So I understand that our suggestions may well be easier said than done.

One more idea... when I was actively showing horses, if you thought a judge's ruling was completely off, or if you thought a rider/horse was competing illegally somehow, you were welcome to lodge a complaint - for $100. Otherwise, people would have been complaining left and right without good reason.

Perhaps "frivolous post reporting" could earn you an infraction? Reporting a post when there is no clear violation of the cite rules could be grounds for an infraction. I think that might make people think longer before hitting the button.

Of course, the only post I've felt necessary to report was pornography. :shrugs:

I hope that's at least a little help, Dean.

I'm very happy with this site. Yes the non-Corn discussions can get itchy and it does sometimes spill over into the Corn sections that I mainly use. But I'm afraid that's just human nature. No amount of moderation can make us stop being infuriating at times - I'm sure it wouldn't work on me when I get crabby!

What I would like to see, is maybe a harsher, faster crackdown on "sock" accounts - people with more than one board ID who are pretending to be two (or more) different people. I'm sure there are legit reasons to have more than one account - I have another that I abandoned a few years back, when I wanted a fresh start after a particularly hectic phase. But I've never pretended to be more than one person. Someone starting an argument then signing up as someone else to support themselves, is getting right up my nose. Although that's hardly the crime of the century, it contributes to the overall bad feeling that can sometimes pervade the board. Don't know how easy it is to identify this situation though. Are IP addresses any use at all to Mods in this situation?*

Could multiple IDs only be available via the Mods? Creating a second (third, fourth... etc) ID without privately explaining the reason to Mods first, could become an infraction.

And thinking about my own "other" ID, would it be possible to have the facility to delete or just permanently lock IDs? I don't use it and have no intention of doing so.


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*Edited To Add: Would it be possible to make IP addresses display as part of your basic user info in your Profile? That way it'd be perfectly obvious when the same person was posting from one PC as different people. It wouldn't eliminate the problem (e.g. doesn't account for shared computers in homes, dorms, internet cafes), but it might make people think twice (and work harder!) f they were considering it as a deliberate ruse.

I do get sick of personal attacks and bullying, and I'm not really happy with the more lenient stand towards cursing. I've seen the slang for 'born out of wedlock' a few times recently and can't say I like that at all. The panda pictures really do seem pretty inane to me.
But........I love the general sense of community that still comes across, the supportiveness, the positive attitudes, sharing our lives through here and most of all the progress of each others' corns!

Roy Munson said:

Members attacking each other personally, instead of attacking their ideas. Name calling. Spiteful antagonism.

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Dean, I was a part of some of that to a certain degree and I agree it was getting out of hand. I was becoming tired of it and reflected that these ( the political "discussions") were not the reasons I was here, and to be sure; I doubt myself or anyone else were changing each others preconceived ideas/minds about said politics, then add in the nasti-isms and it was to say, at-the-least becoming a dark area for me here, a place I had formerly enjoyed.
I decide I was going to stop posting on those and even try to avoid reading those threads and so far I have been successful.
I also went one step further and contacted the three people here, via PM, that I had had the most problems with and offered the "olive branch" so to speak and pretty much said the same thing I've just written.
They all graciously agreed to accept and I can say now that I hope the differences have been resolved, or at least are 'water under the bridge'.
That being said, I do see the "Name calling. Spiteful antagonism" and quite a bit more profanity and especially suggestive profanity that crosses the line, though it appears not to, than when I joined, this could just be me though.
This is my favorite site ( bar none)and just the fact that you've asked this question, about how to improve it, proves the integrity of it and the members here that are really quite a special, dysfunctional family of sorts that I'm happy to be part of.
One suggestion I would like to make is for a new forum to be created that is specific to animals other than cornsnakes ( there are a lot of 'other animal' related threads in "General Chit Chat' that I'm sure could fill another forum and cut down on the volume of threads there), much like the "Other Animals and Related Items For Sale". Geez, You could just call it Other Animals, A forum for any animals other than cornsnakes: including your collections,photographs, animals in the news, etc... as a site full of animal lovers I'm sure this would be a popular one.
Just IMO.

I can only speak for myself, as an (I guess) long standing member who dips in and out of the forum as often as spare time allows. I vaguely remember leaving this site a number of years ago because I'd been noticing personal attacks getting out of hand back then, and for example topics on one subject would turn into a heated debate about another. Eventually someone had a pop at me (I normally avoid commenting on political discussions) and so I left, it wasn't a big deal I just thought 'I don't want to be a part of this'. Now, I can't even remember who the people were who offended me!

I also don't know who the people on this forum are right now who argue in every thread they meet in, and it's not because I avoid these threads, indeed sometimes they are quite entertaining!! I just choose not to get involved. This has the knock on effect of making me one of those sort of 'invisible' members who very few people 'know', but I'm happy with that.

The point I'm trying to make is that each user chooses whether to get involved in this sort of thing or not. If they do, it's because they want to, and so we must not crack down on every thread that someone somewhere has a problem with.

We all have bad days and bite back when someone says something we disagree with. However I assume it is not only new members involved in the problems you are having (?) and therefore clearly the other contributions that person makes here are just as valued and respected.

For those of us who don't wish to be involved, we simply avoid the arguments, and it does not have any impact on our enjoyment of this site. I love it here, and the few members I do 'know' and who know me, I think very highly of.

In conclusion, I personally don't think the moderating here is too lenient nor too strict. For me, aside from regulating bad language and s*xual content of course, all the mods would have to be concerned about is directing people to a more appropriate place if they insist on continuing a petty argument and taking a thread about a specific subject elsewhere - and honestly, the other members of the forum would probably do that for them. You have always dealt with violations appropriately, and long may that continue.

I'm sorry you are having a tough time of it and hope that some suggestions made by other posters will make your life easier. I don't want to presume, but if a significant enough proportion of these types of incidents does involve new members, or members who register multiple IDs, perhaps the registration process should be made more difficult? If this is a redundant suggestion please ignore - it was quite some time ago that I registered!!

Sorry if this post seems very rambling or disjointed, am having trouble getting my thoughts together today.