aspen/eco earth

hi all, i still dont want my corn yet... (damn expo is taking too long to come...lol)
anyway i already ordered a 16 quart bag of aspen from lllreptile.com...(love that site!!!) but now i am thinking of putting eco earth instead( the cages on youtube just look so damn cool).. but i know that corn snakes like to borrow in things.. i was just wondering does anyone know if it is ok if I do half aspen and half eco earth.. it is going to be in a 20 gallon long tank...it is 30 inch long x 12 in x12..and i wanted to get some vines and stuff for it to climb around. I want a jungle theme but i dont think a corn snake will borrow into the eco earth.
Also i will be feeding F/T outside of main tank in a rubbermaid tub. so no impaction( i hope).. i would like it to feel good and alone and get to borrow which is why i am getting about half apsen since i already bought it anyway..
PLease help someone..thanks alot

When we first started keeping corns we used eco earth. The only thing I didn't like about it was our anery would burrow in it, get her nostrils blocked and sneeze a lot. After that we switched to aspen. No issues now.

I use eco earth with all of our snakes. I have never once had an issue with it. I know most here on this site use aspen but I don't like the way it looks. The eco earth just has a more natural look to it. 6 years now and no issues here.

Snakes can burrow in aspen as well. I would say it depends more on how much humidity you need. For example, I have aspen and I regret it a bit now because it's quite dry in AZ and difficult to keep the tank humid without covering it with plastic. Afer I change the tank this month, I may get a package of eco-earth and mix it with the aspen on a 1:3 ratio, earth:aspen. Except for their ability to hold humidity, there is little difference. Although if you're not a fan of cleaning up, the eco earht may be more time-consuming.

I won't deny that at all... eco earth is more time consuming during clean up.

I don't mind the whole clean up thing... I don't think that one baby corn snake should make that much of a mess...and the whole reason I am asking this is because after getting the aspen in the mail..I just don't like the way it look anymore. I live in ny so it is not really that dry.but its started to get cold now.. I just think that the eco earth looks more real..I was thinking about use the eco earth and let it dry out before adding the snake.. do the people that use eco earth leave it dry or keep it moist by misting.?

Also to pepper: does the ratio of aspen to eco earth work for you?...does the aspen get all over the placce or does it stay at one end

Just my experience and opinion here...but I would not use it for a couple of reasons.

1. We used it for our very first snake and it loved to burrow in it. We thought this was great for it must have made the snake feel like it would if it was in the wild. One of the problems was the Eco Earth when dry is quite dusty and fine, it would get in the nostrils of the snake, this problem also occurred if we kept it moist, but then it seemed to pack the nostrils till they were plugged. Over time the snake started to sneeze quite a bit.

2. When the snake releases it's excrement it has urates, stool and a liquid substance(sorry do not know the technical name), all of which contain bacteria and microbes. In the Aspen it all soaks up in the shavings directly around the actual excrement making it almost completely removable. In the Eco Earth the liquid portion soaks into the minute fibrous particles and does not always from a nice neat clump to remove, esp. if the Eco Earth is moist at all. Thus bacteria, microbes and parasites have a better chance to be spread in the Eco Earth.

3. When both moist and dry Eco Earth is very easily tracked into the snakes water bowl. This can then be drank and potentially cause impaction, not as much of a concern with bigger snakes but it is more of a concern with the smaller younger hatchlings and juveniles. Aspen is seldom tracked into the water dish and is shredded or shaved large enough that it generally can't be drank.

4. Add behavior 1.(burrowing and inadvertently inhaling the Eco Earth) to issue 2. (higher chances of bacteria, microbe and parasite growth in the substrate) and you have a higher chance for a respiratory infection which happened with our first snake, whom we no longer have.

After the incident with the first snake, we immediately changed to Aspen. I find it is much easier to spot clean, the viv/tank/tub stays cleaner, don't have to change the water daily due to substrate in it, all of our snakes love to burrow in it, it is far cheaper and it is recommended by the reptile vet.

I am not saying that others have not managed with it, this is just my experience and opinion. Some thoughts to consider.

The only time I used EcoEarth was as a trial in my ATB's viv to see if it would help with the humidity. She ended up getting mites. I'm not necessarily saying it was from the bedding, but I wouldn't doubt it, as she was completely healthy prior to that and none of my other snakes had them (the only difference between her and the others is that she was on EcoEarth instead of aspen or ReptiBark). Needless to say, I don't use it anymore...

Aspen is great for the corns. You can get it in a few different types, shredded, Sani-Chips, regular small animal type shavings, so you might find one that you like the looks of. I personally prefer the shredded for my younger corns and I'm going to be trying the Sani-Chips once I find a place to get it at a reasonable cost.

WOW asbit you are just great... i surely will not be using eco earth, i guess i will just deal with the look of the aspen and make it look nice in the tank. thanks alot. by the way, what kind of decoration do you guys have in the tank? any vines? or plants?... also is there a section on this forum for showing your tank set up..if not i think we should start one. I would love to see how some people have their corn's tank.

Myself, right now I have 5 viv's going. Each one is decorated a bit different.

1. Artemis Snow Motely...approx 3 yrs...377 gms.. is in a 30 gal long...she has a large water dish, a turtle corner ramp for a hide on the cool side, a log in a v shape covered with fake vines in the middle for another temp gradient and a large hide on the warm side, aspen bedding.

2. Aphrodite Reverse Okeetee... approx 8mths...77 gms ...also a 30 gal long... she has an all in one hide, as suggested by Kathy Love and can bee seen herehttp://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?p=905714#post905714(complete with instructions so that you can make a hatchling feel safe and secure in a large tank right from the start and not have to purchase more than one)....with it she has a large water bowl(ever since day one..@15 gms) and a couple of Egyptian type decorations(she is my 10 yr olds to replace the first snake), aspen bedding.

3. Hera..Caramel with hets... 12 gms ..in a 20 gal reg.. with all in one hide, small ceramic cat food dish for a water dish, and a piece of grape vine to climb and fake vines covering it for extra covert movement as she is shy, and a fist sized pond rock for crawling around to help with shedding, paper towel bedding until at least 15 gms, then aspen bedding.

4. Zeus...Normal with hets...11 gms ..in a 10 gal reg... with all in one hide, small ceramic cat food dish for a water dish, magnetic wall ledge hidden by fake vines, fist sized pond rock to help with sheds and a fake spikey plant to crawl in also to assist with sheds, paper towel bedding until at least 15 gms then aspen bedding.

5. Kratos...Butter with hets...8gms..in a small plastic critter keeper, with all in one hide, small ceramic cat food dish for a water dish, small grape vine to climb, small spikey plant to help with sheds and and half fist sized pond rock as well, paper towel bedding until at least 15 gms, then aspen bedding.

The last three were recent purchases but I did not expect them to be so small esp once they arrived and I found out their hatch dates, but the breeder I got them from must have been only maintenance feeding to keep them alive for them to have been that small and the feeds and hatch dates to have been accurate, hence the different substrate and the extra shedding aids and the fact that we do not do anything with them except feed, water and clean their viv's right now.

Your setups all sound really cool... how do your magetic rocks work.. are they nice or do that fall down a lot by the weight of the snake..I was thinking of buying some of them. I like the ones that have holes in them and look like hides... so far I have everything I think I need for my corn.. I have aspen bedding. Heat mat. Themostat. Digial temp . Water dish. But all I need is some decrotion and some hides

I have a magnetic rock ledge and those magnets are so strong that there is a warning on the package to slide them up the glass to the place where the ledge is not let them pull toward each other or they can break the glass!

There are different sizes that hold different weights. Just check the packaging. Personally I have not bought the hide one because I just use some foliage over the ledge and then they get foliage and a ledge and the foliage is usable for decoration and hiding spots where it falls. I like to use things that have multiple purposes, saves money.

As well you can "DIY" do it yourself, with the foliage, much cheaper than buying it ready made at the pet shop. This way you can also pick colors you think will complement your snake, pet stores only seem to offer green.

1. Purchase some foliage that you like from a place like Walmart.
2. Purchase a small reclosable tube of clear bathroom silicone or aquarium silicone.
3. Purchase some small suction cups(preferably ones with the holes in the back where you can put some of the foliage through to attach them).
4. Purchase some light crafting wire.
5. Cut several different lengths of foliage, slide your suction cup onto your foliage and near the top use some crafting wire to secure the suction cup and wire the foliage together.
6. Where you cut your foliage, if it has wire in the plastic, use silicone to reseal and protect the snake from any sharp ends.
7. Cover the craft wire with silicone.
8. Let dry 48 hrs to ensure that the silicone is not giving off any toxic fumes(if you want to be really safe wait 72 hrs).
9. Suction cup to where you want in your viv and enjoy.

I am currently in the process of making some of the foliage myself but can not find the suction cups in my small city, the next city over carries them in the craft department of Walmart but that is 1.5 hrs away one way, so just waiting until my next trip there.

Later today I will post pics of each viv one this thread for you.

Oh ok.. thanks a lot asbit.you always seem to help.. I am looking forward to seeing the pics.. also based on everything I said I have for the tank. Would you say I am all set or am I still missing a lot or putting things together wrong. And do your corns really climb on the ledges...... how high do you have it in your tank.. and can corns even climb that mucch or that well... I heard somewhere that pythons and boas climb the most.

wliob

As promised here are pics of all the vivs. Each of them have some sort of backing or paper on at least the back and for the little snakes the sides as well, so that they feel more secure when out exploring.

1. Artemis's House-30 gal long -She can hide under the orange leaves(on top of the turtle corner), under the turtle corner, behind the log in the middle under the green leaves and in the hide on the right and ahe has a large water bowl. She is the 3.5 ft 377 gm snake.

2. Aphrodite's House-30 gal long-She has an all in one hide, a large water dish and some simple decor that my 10 yr old picked out as she is technically his. She is approx 1.5-2 ft and 77 gms.

3. Hera's House-20 gal reg-She has an all in one hide and a pond stone and grape vine branch hiding under her fake plants, so that if she wants to get exercise she can under cover, finally a water bowl.

4. Zeus's House-10 gal reg-He has an all in one hide, a spiky plant and other fake plants which hide his rock and magnetic ledge, last but not least a water bowl.

5. Kratos's House-Small plastic critter keeper-he has an all in one hide(made from a roll out of the center of a plastic wrap roll), spiky plant and grape vine branch, a rock and a water dish.

wliob

To answer your question, about using the ledge, the cali king used it lots once we put fake plants over it for cover. I only just put them up for cover over the shelf for Zeus so I have yet to see if he will sit up there, I have seen him slither over it though.

Corns can climb, in fact the top to pics in the last post, those tanks have a lip at the top and little corns love to climb up and rest in them. Some where on here, there are pics of them doing it. As well someone, sorry I can not remember who, made little raised hides out of suspended toilet paper rolls and took pics of the little corns in them. So yes they can climb, if they feel like it. Some will, some won't.

Thanks so much for the pics they helped a lot.

Your welcome anytime.